keywords
deafness, mental health, community support, financial implications, ADHD, disability awareness, thriving, advocacy, career challenges, social isolation
summary
In this episode of Mrs Mummy Penny Talks, host Mrs Mummy Penny interviews Sam Baines, a deaf actress, author, and advocate. They discuss Sam’s journey with deafness, the challenges she faces in daily life, the importance of community support, and the financial implications of being deaf. Sam shares her experiences with ADHD and how it intersects with her deafness, as well as the discrimination she has faced in her career. The conversation emphasizes the need for awareness and understanding of deafness and disability in society.
takeaways
- Sam Baines is a deaf actress and advocate.
- Lip reading can be exhausting and is not always accurate.
- Deafness can be hereditary and varies in severity.
- Social isolation is a significant issue for deaf individuals.
- Community support is crucial for mental health and thriving.
- Financial costs associated with deafness can be substantial.
- Workplaces should make reasonable adjustments for deaf employees.
- ADHD can coexist with deafness and impact daily life.
- Discrimination against deaf individuals in the workplace is still prevalent.
- Finding a supportive community can greatly enhance quality of life.
titles
- The Intersection of Deafness and ADHD
- Community Support for Deaf Individuals
Sound Bites
- “How can deaf people thrive?”
- “Lip reading is really tiring.”
- “Deafness is legally a disability.”
Chapters
00:00Introduction to Sam Baines and Her Journey
02:26Understanding Deafness and Its Impact
06:59The Spectrum of Deafness
10:57Daily Challenges of Living with Deafness
21:51Mental Health and Community Support
28:07Financial Implications of Deafness
32:45Career Choices and Discrimination
37:20ADHD and Its Intersection with Deafness
48:54Conclusion and Resources
Show Notes
MrsMummy Penny (00:01.747)
Hi everybody and welcome back to Mrs Mummy Penny Talks. We’re on to episode 13 now of my latest season, which is The Big Questions. And I’m doing something a little bit different this week because I met my guest virtually, Sam Baines, in a meta creators group that we’re in. And we sort of engaged over some…
some sort of meetings where we’re all trying to help each other and I thought it’d be really good to actually interview you about your life and what you go through because Sam is deaf and is thriving in her own world so I thought what a perfect topic for a podcast, the big question, how can deaf people thrive and who better to answer it than you Sam? So thank you for coming on to the podcast.
Sam (00:55.597)
Thanks for having me and nice to connect in our weird meta group.
MrsMummy Penny (01:02.244)
Yeah, so I should explain because I don’t know how I ended up in it, maybe the same way as you, but I think I had like a few viral Instagram posts this year and I think they worked out that I needed a little bit of help because my Instagram could be better than it is. So I just got invited into this program and it’s super helpful, isn’t it? Like there’s just lots of creators from all different niches, which is what I really love.
because I’m used to just talking to sort personal finance people all the time and this way gets talker up to all different people.
Sam (01:38.304)
Yeah, I like to think that they found people with incredible potential and invited us all to a group to like excel and win at life on social media. But yeah, it’s really nice to connect with people and also get tips because, you know, I am deaf, as you mentioned, I lip read, I have a hearing aid, I also have ADHD, which means that my profile is like a little bit of everything of whatever.
MrsMummy Penny (01:42.887)
Yes.
MrsMummy Penny (01:50.099)
again.
Sam (02:05.459)
I’ve decided impulsively to do that day. So it’s nice to have kind of a group to help you focus, I think.
MrsMummy Penny (02:09.009)
Yeah
MrsMummy Penny (02:13.659)
Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. So Sam, tell us a little bit about, I love asking this question, so not just what do you do, but what is your why? Why do you do what you do?
Sam (02:26.833)
Well, I’m an actress and it’s a really loud, it’s a really loud car, can you hear it?
MrsMummy Penny (02:33.052)
And you’re in the crown.
MrsMummy Penny (02:38.077)
No.
Sam (02:38.399)
like beeping at, okay great. Yeah so I’m an actress, I’ve been in things like The Crown, Call the Midwife, Silent Witness and I do that because I love it and I just really enjoy it and always have since I was little and then…
Can you hear it? It’s next door doing some work.
MrsMummy Penny (03:01.445)
I did hear it then.
MrsMummy Penny (03:06.459)
I can maybe like edit this video.
Sam (03:10.694)
Obviously they’ve started now to do some work. Like literally in the room next door.
MrsMummy Penny (03:14.695)
you
MrsMummy Penny (03:18.997)
I can’t hear any drilling or anything.
Sam (03:21.597)
I can hear it really loudly.
MrsMummy Penny (03:25.863)
No, no it’s, it’s, I can’t hear it at all. And there’s nothing being picked up on the mic either, cause I can see the, go on.
Sam (03:31.625)
10.
Sam (03:36.979)
really loud. Okay, I’ll try and talk over it. yeah, so I’m an actress because I like it. And then I did stand up comedy for seven years and did two Edinburgh’s and a UK tour. And I really enjoyed that because I was like my own boss and I could write my own material and talk about whatever I wanted to talk about. But I actually stopped doing that because I because of my deafness and something called listening fatigue.
MrsMummy Penny (03:59.249)
Yeah.
Sam (04:06.729)
which is because I live in a hearing world, I lip read and lip reading is really tiring. So if you imagine focusing really intently on someone’s lips like all day to try and understand. also lip reading isn’t a perfect science. So most of the time you can max get like 90 % of what people are saying and then you sort of have to fill in the blanks like a crossword, you know, with context or body language and things like that.
So it can be really tiring and I actually found the comedy industry, you know, like the traveling on public transport, the arriving in really loud rooms where like audience, where audience are like mingling around and, my dog’s barking now, where audience are mingling around and like drinks are being made and then comedians are talking to you in the green room.
I found it just really tiring and because I do so many things, I kind of had to take time out afterwards and it was affecting the other things I do. So I stopped doing that. But I’m also an author and writer and a broadcaster and deaf advocate. And the why is because I’m deaf myself. I found out eight years ago and it was a complete… Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (05:12.114)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (05:28.252)
So was it like a degenerative thing or have you always struggled with your hearing from a young age?
Sam (05:31.258)
And it was a…
Sam (05:38.416)
So I wouldn’t say I’ve ever struggled. I just thought that this was the world and that everyone sort of, and I naturally was lip reading even at school. Like I used to sit in the front row so I could lip read the teacher. And obviously it was called a goody two shoes and stuff. But I was like, how does anyone understand what’s going on in the lesson if they don’t sit in the front?
MrsMummy Penny (05:46.695)
Yes.
MrsMummy Penny (06:01.629)
Yeah
Sam (06:03.782)
So looking back, I think it started much younger, but I didn’t have a hearing test until I was 29, which is when I found out. So my whole life I didn’t have one. My mum has hearing aids as well and it can be hereditary deafness. So I do think it kind of runs in our family, but I don’t know. I was born just before the newborn hearing test started, which was, it started in like the early nineties.
MrsMummy Penny (06:12.263)
Bye!
Sam (06:31.075)
So I don’t know if I was born with full hearing or not. I assume I was born with full hearing and then it slowly kind of got worse with age. But yeah, I only found out eight years ago and it was a complete shock. And my way of dealing with things is to like research everything and like throw myself into all the charities and meet people and ask them questions. And I guess that’s why I do what I do now.
MrsMummy Penny (06:40.616)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (06:44.883)
Absolutely.
Sam (06:59.476)
help other people in that situation and also help other people feel confident about being deaf and learn to love their deafness or love their hearing aids or cochlear implant or you know whatever it is they use because I think it’s so important especially in a hearing world and in a non -accessible world for disabled people we’re quite often made to feel like we don’t fit in and we’re not
MrsMummy Penny (07:08.883)
you
Sam (07:28.196)
kind of valued and I want to combat that.
MrsMummy Penny (07:33.233)
Yeah, that’s amazing. That’s amazing. So can I ask about, so that there’s going to be different sort of severities of deafness and people that are born, I suppose it’s graded maybe. I know nothing about it. So you absolutely like treat me like I’m.
that I’m a newborn that knows nothing about deafness. But yeah, so you can be born with being completely deaf or it can be like a degenerative thing that happens as you age. Like, what are the different levels of it?
Sam (08:08.663)
Yeah, so there are lots of different ways you can become deaf. You can be born deaf. You can become deaf from sort of sound wear and tear. If you’re in loud environments, a lot of musicians become deaf and get tinnitus. Radio presenters, people who work in construction and the army. Then there’s also things that can cause deafness like certain diseases like meningitis.
MrsMummy Penny (08:20.269)
Yeah… Yeah…
Sam (08:37.57)
and certain side effects to other things like some cancer treatments and things like that can cause deafness. Deaf with a lowercase d as a term covers everyone in the deaf community. you know, whether you’re born deaf, whether you have mild hearing loss, as an audiologist might call it, know, deaf covers us all. And I think one of the big things
MrsMummy Penny (08:44.402)
Yeah.
Sam (09:05.166)
is and the misconceptions is I say to people I’m deaf and they’ll say well you’re not really because you can hear me but actually you know a lot of the time I am lip reading so you know we started this recording and I couldn’t hear you initially there was no sound but I could still understand what you were saying because I was lip reading you even if there was no sound and you know you’ve probably got an example that other people don’t get to get.
which is that it could have seemed like I could hear you from my reply to lip reading you. So people don’t understand the level of how much you might not be able to hear because quite a lot of us living in a hearing world are lip reading and doing other things to kind of get by. Hearing, I wear one hearing aid. I have deafness in both ears, but it’s worse on one side. Hearing aids can help.
MrsMummy Penny (09:43.037)
Yeah.
Sam (10:03.85)
but they will never like top up your hearing to be of a full hearing level. So they don’t cure deafness in any way. So they help, but in certain environments, an environment with a lot of background noise, like a restaurant, if we were talking and there was a group of us, it would still be very difficult, even with my hearing aid and the modern technology that hearing aids have.
it would still be very difficult and tiring for me and I would be lip reading and sort of having to pay a lot of attention. So there are different levels of deafness, but I do find that hearing people are very preoccupied, no offence, with the level of deafness and actually it’s not about that because anyone who’s deaf is living in a non -accessible world for them, no matter the level of deafness that they have. So…
MrsMummy Penny (10:29.256)
Hmm.
Sam (10:57.821)
I think people always want to sort of gauge your deafness as to work out like how bad it is for you, but actually it’s all difficult. So, you know, I don’t like to answer that question, but obviously I do in my book. So the levels of deafness tend to be mild, and this is a medical model, mild, moderate, severe, and then severe can also be profound.
MrsMummy Penny (11:05.159)
Yeah,
Sam (11:25.406)
So profound deafness normally means that people don’t hear very much at all. But also another misconception is that a lot of deaf people don’t hear anything. And that’s not true. The majority of deaf people can hear sound and noise. They just might not be able to distinguish details. And actually there’s 18 million people with some form of hearing loss or deafness in the UK. So that is
MrsMummy Penny (11:38.673)
Yeah. Yeah, I think you’re right.
Yeah.
Sam (11:55.442)
one in three. So there’s a lot of us and we could take over is what I’m saying.
MrsMummy Penny (11:58.68)
my gosh, that is huge. That is absolutely huge. So what?
Sam (12:05.31)
And the majority of that 18 million are people like me that have some, you know, still hear some sound, but might not hear all. And, you know, you can use hearing aids, you can use a cochlear implant, you can use other aids, you can decide not to use any of those things. Because, you know, there are things that come with it, like hearing aids hurt when you first start wearing them. If you have implants, you know, you go through an operation.
MrsMummy Penny (12:14.129)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (12:17.554)
Yeah.
Sam (12:34.683)
to do that and some people decide that, you know, that’s not for them. Some people use British Sign Language. I wasn’t brought up in an environment where that was accessible to me. So I learned to lip read subconsciously, but you can also go to lip reading classes. So there’s also a lot of different experiences within that.
MrsMummy Penny (12:50.984)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (12:54.555)
Yeah. And what would you say like your biggest like frustrations or bug bears about sort of day to day life and the problems that you come across most commonly?
Sam (13:07.932)
I think the main problem is hearing people not believing that it’s a disability or not believing that it’s difficult. I think because there’s something called a deaf accent, which is when your voice has an accent because you’re deaf. And because I don’t have a deaf accent, people assume that I don’t have much deafness.
And actually having a deaf accent has no relation to the level of deafness that you have. It’s determined by lots of other things like your access to language, whether you brought up in a deaf family or not. know, also just, you know, whether you went to… Some children were sent to schools where they were made and forced to use their voice even if they didn’t want to and sort of mouth out words. So, you know, I’m drama school trained. So…
MrsMummy Penny (13:35.868)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (13:59.154)
Yeah.
Sam (14:04.261)
They trained the bromeli mostly out of my voice. So, you know, you can tell. So a lot of people assume because I don’t have a deaf accent, I’m not very deaf. And also because I, you know, it is an invisible disability. And when someone tells you that you’re deaf, I would just say, please, please take them seriously and believe them. You know, we wouldn’t.
be lying about it. I told my doctor’s surgery recently, obviously it’s on my medical notes, but I said, I can’t call up to book an appointment. I’m deaf. Please, can I email you? And they were like, you can’t email me. have too many, you know, we get too many emails. And then they went on to my medical record and said, I’ve seen that you’ve had telephone appointments with the GP.
So you need to call us. Like suggesting that I was making up being deaf so that I could email them when actually I could hear. And I had to reply and say, I’m really disappointed I have to tell you this as a medical service, but I can have telephone appointments with the GP because they’re in a very quiet room.
MrsMummy Penny (15:22.855)
Yeah. Yeah.
Sam (15:23.581)
I can hear them and or I can ask them to repeat themselves and also that’s the only method that you’re offering me if I can’t come in so I’ve got to do it if I want to see the GP. But if I call up reception there’s three of you in there you’re in the middle of the doctor’s surgery there’s people coming in there’s lots of background noise it’s very stressful for me I can’t understand what you’re saying you know please just give me an accessible way to book and that is a medical service that can see my medical records.
MrsMummy Penny (15:51.673)
Yes.
Sam (15:53.44)
that say that I’m deaf and that I’ve been to an audiologist and that I have, there is a graph that measures how deaf I am on my medical records. So, you know, and they assume that I was lying because one time I used the phone and it is just wild the amount of people who just don’t believe you. Like people have said to me that I say I’m deaf for attention and that, you know, and I’ve written. So, so all my ads.
MrsMummy Penny (16:03.697)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (16:09.169)
Yeah, yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (16:18.917)
Woohoo! No you got this, I did!
Sam (16:22.803)
Yeah, all my advocacy work is for attention and actually I’m not deaf. And, you know, even things like writing schemes where they’re looking for disabled people to write disabled stories, like authored by disabled people with disabled main characters so that it’s authentic. And I wrote a script about a deaf woman.
I was told by an exec in the comedy writing world that I wasn’t really disabled, so I couldn’t apply. And deafness is legally a disability, under the law I am disabled. also disabled isn’t, you know the disabled community is amazing and disability isn’t a scary, horrible word.
MrsMummy Penny (17:14.759)
Mm.
Sam (17:18.004)
Like I’m very proud to be part of the disabled community. I have a different experience for lot of people because I can pass in inverted commas for not disabled because I have an invisible disability. But, you know, we face different challenges in that people don’t believe us or take us seriously. So, yeah, please take someone seriously if they tell you that they’re deaf.
MrsMummy Penny (17:39.963)
Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s bizarre. And it’s just got me thinking like, like I did, I did this, I did this activity at school where you sit in a wheelchair for a day and to try and experience life as a…
mobility, sort of disabled person. But I’m just trying to imagine like maybe going into London, going to like meetings without any hearing, like, how would you handle the trains? How would you do the underground? How would you, you know, get around the, there’s so many health and safety things which are really gonna, well.
very much impact you when you can’t hear what’s going on and you must end up, you must end up, know when trains are diverted or cancelled or stuff it must take you so much longer to get to places because you can’t hear the announcement that comes through that’s telling people.
Sam (18:43.996)
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I write about this in my book, Nice segue, living with hearing loss and deafness. But it is a massive safety issue. you know, being a woman walking home late at night is scary enough anyway. But if you are worried that you can’t hear someone creeping up behind you, you know, it’s even scarier. you know, constantly looking around you so you see something because you can’t rely on your hearing.
Yeah, trains and public transport is so difficult and there is a disabled person’s rail card. So anyone who has any level of deafness or hearing loss or uses a hearing aid, you can get the disabled person’s rail card which gives you a third off travel. And again, people will say, yeah, but you don’t really need money off travel, you’re fine. But just like you said, if there’s a diversion and everything’s done on announcements, I can’t hear it.
And also, you know what you said about not being able to hear very much if you’re going into town and stuff. Yes, but also, you know, with certain deafness, you can hear, so you’ll hear like background noise louder than one person’s voice in front of you. So it’s also incredibly overwhelming because crowd noise becomes extra loud and then you can’t pinpoint and hear the specific things you’re trying to hear like announcements.
MrsMummy Penny (20:02.161)
Yeah.
Sam (20:10.551)
or even someone who works for the rail company in front of you that you’re asking questions about the diversions. So yeah, it can be a super stressful environment. And also you’re on high alert because you know that if there is a diversion, you need to be on it and asking people or looking at screens. yeah, even something like that, buying.
MrsMummy Penny (20:25.469)
Yeah.
Sam (20:38.703)
Like buying a train ticket. If your card isn’t accepted on the machine, the machine beeps. I don’t hear that. If you’re looking for your keys in your bag to open your front door, I can’t rely on hearing the jingle to tell whether they’re in my bag or not. I actually have to find them and feel them. If you’re going through the ticket barrier.
MrsMummy Penny (20:58.298)
Mmm.
Sam (21:05.142)
and I’m not looking at the person at the barrier and they say something like, it’s not accepting your ticket or come over here or they think I’m ignoring them and that I’m doing something wrong because of that. All these tiny things every single day massively add up and I think a lot of people don’t consider those small things and the impact that they can have on deaf people.
MrsMummy Penny (21:16.614)
Yeah
MrsMummy Penny (21:29.565)
Yeah.
Yeah, so that’s gonna have like a massive impact on your mental health, isn’t it? Like, is it, I would have to assume then that mental health levels, mental health issues are higher in deaf people and people with disabilities because of all of this stuff they have to overcome in life.
Sam (21:51.895)
Yeah, so there have been studies that show that people who are deaf are twice as likely to have mental health issues and have difficult mental health. And also social isolation can be a really big one, know, especially if you don’t have. And that’s what’s so important, I think, about thriving as a deaf person is finding your community.
is finding a group of people and they might be hearing people but that can support you, understand what you’re going through and advocate for you. So like if you’re going to lunch with a friend, if your friend can like ring up in advance and say I’m meeting someone who’s deaf, can we have a table with our backs against the wall because that helps with sound.
MrsMummy Penny (22:24.861)
Yeah.
Sam (22:39.983)
where there’s no speaker, where we’re not near the coffee machine, where we’re in a quiet corner, doing that can make such a huge impact. You’ll find now after we’ve had this conversation, if you go to a coffee shop or a restaurant today, you’ll think about how loud everything is and the speakers and where everything is. Actually, sometimes it is hard to find a quiet table, but having a supportive network also like
MrsMummy Penny (22:56.979)
I’m really nervous.
Sam (23:09.44)
making connections with other deaf people, other people who have hearing aids if you have them, you know, and the ways to do that is like going to a lip reading class, for example, a lot of them are free. Some of them are funded by the NHS and you have a community of people all learning to lip read together. Even if you lip read already, it can be really useful. There’s also charities, you can go to charity events, you can learn British Sign Language, which is an amazing.
and it’s really fun and then you get to meet lots of people. Finding community is such an important part of thriving because social isolation among deaf people is huge. During the pandemic with the masks, it was impossible to lip read and even your one daily or weekly trip was it to the supermarket. You still can’t talk to anyone because they’ve all got masks on and you can’t understand them.
MrsMummy Penny (23:51.533)
my god, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (24:06.215)
Yeah, Social isolation, think, as a sort of bigger, that’s like one of the core issues, isn’t it, with mental health. And I think whatever you’re going through, is the cause of mental health issues, you know, be that.
a traumatic event that’s happened in your life or something that you’re really struggling with or a disability or anything. It’s really try and find your tribe. I’ve been, and we’ll come on to talk about other aspects of your life like divorce and stuff later, but I’ve been going through.
I’ve had a few issues relating to my divorce recently and I had a really traumatic day last week where I had a bit of a horrible meeting and I went, I came into London and I met two of my friends who are in very similar situations with kids and with divorces and exes that aren’t…
great and it was just so powerful to sit there and the three of us and just moan to each other because you really feel like you don’t want to burden people with your like daily like troubles and stuff that’s really really getting you down but finding your community is just so powerful in so many situations so yeah.
It can empower you, it can get you out of a hole, can excel you, but yeah, absolutely worth doing.
Sam (25:40.2)
And also you can learn from your community. Like, you know, I have a podcast about divorce and I started it because I didn’t know anyone else like in my friendship group or anything who was getting divorced. So I sort of started a podcast basically to try and create my own divorce community. And now it’s lovely. And like everyone I interview, I learn stuff from them.
MrsMummy Penny (25:46.247)
Yeah.
Sam (26:04.506)
And, you know, even in the chats of the people who listen to the podcast, like we have a Patreon account and we have a little Discord chat and like people share their news and the other people can celebrate with them because they know what it means. And yeah, it’s so, so important to kind of share and talk and counselling. I always have counselling too.
MrsMummy Penny (26:23.324)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The podcast I did that is being published today is actually about with a therapist in training. So the big question was how can therapy help me? And I am like the biggest fan of therapy and counseling and I’ve had it my whole life. And I think any kind of…
If you can afford it, I know there’s issues around affordability of counselling, but if you can afford it, it’s absolutely worth having and everybody will benefit from some counselling or therapy. It sort of depends. Your trauma and your issues, like some people counselling’s fine, some people therapies are a bit more appropriate, but yeah, huge fan of that.
Sam (27:14.48)
Yeah, and you you can get it on the NHS. There is normally long waiting lists, but yeah, I wouldn’t be here and together as a human if I hadn’t had counselling for my whole life. Not that I’m that together already, but I mean, I’ve got clothes on and my hair is messy because I had a massage yesterday and they did that oil thing in your hair. And know, when you’re like, no, I’ve got to go home with oily hair and I haven’t washed it yet.
MrsMummy Penny (27:18.865)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (27:33.448)
Yes.
MrsMummy Penny (27:38.973)
yes.
MrsMummy Penny (27:44.787)
it’s really good for your scalp though. Leave it on for as long as possible. I love a head massage. That’s my favourite thing. Okay. So I think it’s also worth talking about financial impacts because this is something that I have, and in my 12 years of doing Mrs Mummy Penny and talking about money,
Sam (27:44.837)
But apart from that…
Yeah, it is. Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (28:07.535)
I’ve never written about the financial impacts of being a deaf person. Now, I’m going to assume that it costs you a lot more money than a regular person.
Sam (28:18.895)
Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of things are available on the NHS, but they’re not necessarily the most modern. So for example, hearing aids are available on the NHS, but it’s it’d be like if you imagine phones were available on the NHS, you wouldn’t get the latest iPhone, you know.
And it can be a bit of a postcode lottery. Like some areas you can get really advanced hearing aids, like with Bluetooth capabilities and stuff, and others you’d get the sort of more basic model. So even if you get the basic model, it comes with batteries. And there are services where you can get free batteries, but most deaf people I know buy their hearing aid batteries. So that’s an extra cost. Obviously, if you want an up -to -date hearing aid,
which you kind of do because you wear it every day. It helps you survive in a hearing world. you know, with the modern ones are great. Like I love my hearing aid. She’s pink and she has Bluetooth. So I’m listening to you now through my hearing aid. I can stream podcasts and music. I can connect to the TV. I can answer the telephone.
MrsMummy Penny (29:12.242)
Cool.
Sam (29:33.668)
And it makes it much easier because obviously the sound is going into my ear through the hearing aid. And they have special noise cancelling functions. So it does help in those environments where everything’s really loud. It’s not perfect, but it helps. So a pair of modern hearing aids can cost 6 ,000 pounds. Yeah. And so then you’re buying them from a private audiologist.
MrsMummy Penny (29:56.786)
my god.
Sam (30:03.03)
And so your private audiology sessions cost money to have updates or to, you know, check up on the hearing aids. Some people offer like the aftercare of hearing aids, like included in the price. But if anything went wrong with it, you’d still have to go along. Then there’s things like, you know, how so my hearing aids are rechargeable so they don’t have the tiny batteries, which is great.
Because you lose them and they have stickers on them and you find stickers all over yourself the minor rechargeable just like my phone is so I take them off at night and put them in the charger that obviously needs charging which is money on electricity and There’s other hearing aids that need charging. So there’s something called a Roger pen that you can connect to your hearing aids So that’s you it’s like a extra might it makes me feel like a spy basically if I go to like a comp
If I put that in the front next to the speaker and then I go and sit wherever I want it connects directly to my hearing aid and then obviously people forget it’s there and then have little chats and I can hear what’s going on which is why it makes me feel like a spy. you know so the Roger pen you can usually get that through your work or access to work.
MrsMummy Penny (31:08.221)
That’s not
Sam (31:25.566)
Obviously that takes a lot of time and applying for it and things like that. You can buy it separately, but we’re talking hundreds of pounds. That takes charging every time you use it. And it’s also just the time, like the extra time and time is money, the extra time traveling because you can’t hear the announcements and then you have to change trains and then you’re late for stuff.
MrsMummy Penny (31:49.595)
Yeah, yeah.
Sam (31:49.666)
or the extra time because you can’t call somewhere because you know it’s going to be like booking a table at a restaurant. I can’t call up a restaurant during their busy period because they normally answer the phone on the restaurant floor and I won’t be able to hear them. So, you know, I have to like email or go through an online service to book a restaurant. And obviously independent restaurants don’t often have those.
So it takes longer even to like just go out for dinner. So yeah, there are a lot of things that cost more money being disabled and being deaf.
MrsMummy Penny (32:29.394)
And do you think it’s, do you think it’s, I’m not sure it has because of what you’ve done in your career, but do you think it’s impacted your career choices in, does it mean you have less options available to you with what you’ve done with your work?
Sam (32:45.374)
Well, I mean, it does. Luckily, I have a job where I can kind of mould what I do. But if you are working, if you are in the workplace, you know, you might, for example, in an open plan office, find that it’s too stressful in an environment for you. And workplaces do, should legally make reasonable adjustments, it’s called.
MrsMummy Penny (32:54.097)
Yeah.
Sam (33:13.695)
to make your workplace accessible so you can do your job. But as I said, when you’re deaf and it’s an invisible disability, a lot of people don’t quite understand the level and the difference that things can make. know, like soft furnishings, pillows, rugs, they absorb sound. So if you’ve got an open plan office with really high ceilings, like no soft seating areas,
that’s going to be terrible because all the sound is going to bounce around and be really overwhelming. And, you know, I have ADHD and so for neurodiverse people as well, it can be overwhelming for other reasons. So, you know, even things like if your employer were to put up like a partition, so even just your group of colleagues is in a little area, you know, just like one of those movable fabric partitions or even like
Plants can absorb sound. So if you have those tall plants and that looks nice, if you have a little seating area with cushions or, you know, and that again looks nice, but that can really, really help with sound. And then also if you have a job that relies on making telephone calls, you know, there shouldn’t be discrimination, but if someone sees that you’re deaf on your CV, there can be. And especially when I sort of came out and
MrsMummy Penny (34:30.247)
Yeah.
Sam (34:40.657)
I wrote my book about deafness and I also write children’s books with deaf protagonists and I am an ambassador for RNID, which is the Royal National Institute for Deaf People, and I started talking really publicly about my deaf experience. I didn’t get as many auditions and acting jobs and I didn’t have an acting job for the longest of my career. Now that could be a coincidence.
I could have got really bad at acting for a period of time, but it did seem interesting that it coincided with me sort of speaking publicly and also adding the fact that I was deaf and used a hearing aid to my acting CV. So there is still massive prejudice and you know, there shouldn’t be, it’s against the law, it’s discrimination if someone doesn’t hire you based on the fact that you’re deaf. But unfortunately it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
MrsMummy Penny (35:12.807)
Night.
MrsMummy Penny (35:37.383)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Sam (35:41.956)
Yeah, you know, yeah, all of it. But I, you know, when I found out I was deaf and I needed a hearing aid, I was doing a lot of radio at the time and I thought, my God, well, I can’t be a radio presenter who’s deaf, like what? And same with period dramas, you know, I thought, God, I can’t wear my hearing aid in a period drama. So I just used to like not tell anyone and take my hearing aid out and just hope for the best. So like I’ve not heard the director say action.
MrsMummy Penny (35:48.317)
for
MrsMummy Penny (35:55.325)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (36:08.517)
Sam (36:11.76)
before because I didn’t have my hearing aid in and I hadn’t told anyone because I was worried that you know it make me lose my job but you know since I have been more open about it on the sets where they’ve accepted me it’s been amazing and people have been really brilliant and you know when I present on the radio instead of having people phone in I have them like on a video call so I can lip read
MrsMummy Penny (36:13.105)
Yeah.
Sam (36:38.743)
everyone’s been fine with that. It is possible to do on the radio. People might not be used to it, but when you explain it, you know, and I always try and fight for having kind of transcripts of shows that I’ve done or if you listen to some of the radio apps on your iPad, it comes and you turn on automatic captions, it can caption it. Not always brilliantly, but
MrsMummy Penny (37:05.713)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Sam (37:08.346)
You know, and I think actually making audio more accessible for the 18 million people in the UK who have some form of hearing loss or deafness is super important.
MrsMummy Penny (37:20.871)
It’s that number. Yeah, I think that’s that’s the big takeaway that it’s what a third a third of the UK population pretty much So can we can we just touch on the ADHD? Diagnosis that you mentioned as well. So are you I’ve got a lot of female friends And it is all women who are getting a recent diagnosis is that’s not even a word now, so
Sam (37:29.167)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (37:48.239)
It’s so frustrating because it’s like we have lived with masking all of these tendencies and ways our brain works throughout our lives. And we’ve become so astute to it that we perceive to the world that because I’ve got some ADHD traits and it’s something that I’m really interested in. One of my children has got quite.
extreme ADHD traits. We’re just going through a diagnosis at the moment. But I’m really trying to you know, as you said, when you find something out, you research it, research it. That’s what I’m doing at the moment. So impart your, impart your like guidance and knowledge onto me as to how you sort of dealt with it, and maybe how you deal with it with a child as well.
Sam (38:40.268)
Yeah, so I think for a long time I thought I had ADHD and you you read up about it and you think, yeah, I’ve got those symptoms or there’s lots of, you know, Instagram and TikTok videos saying these are the symptoms of ADHD. But I also know that I have anxiety and I’m very quick to self -diagnose. So I also was very aware that
MrsMummy Penny (39:04.666)
Bye.
Sam (39:06.302)
Yeah, that I might be just attributing lots of things to having ADHD, which is why getting a diagnosis for me was really important. And I had been on the NHS waiting list for two years and I still hadn’t heard anything. And when I had my little girl, I felt like it was really bringing my ADHD to the fore and not the good bits, because I actually really love having ADHD. And I think it makes me
more creative, you know, I’m an idea machine, which is really good for like writing and what I do and pitching. It’s made me impulsively do lots of things that I might not have otherwise done, like decide to write a children’s book and give that a go. And now that’s one of my favourite things to do. And so it has done amazing things for me. But I felt like when my daughter came along, all of my kind of strategies for like
writing a to -do list and going through it and like putting things in my diary and a reminder in my diary suddenly wasn’t working because there was so many other things going on. So I felt like I’d got my like how to survive at work and not miss every meeting and be late for everything down. And then all of a sudden I had a baby and also she has medical needs and we were in hospital with her for three months.
So all of a sudden there was all this other stuff and it was like I didn’t have the strategies in my personal life for my ADHD to be able to manage that. So I was feeling really, really overwhelmed. And I decided that for me, I wanted to get a private diagnosis. And I shared it kind of a bit on Instagram and asked other people about it. And I think the main thing people were saying is medication wise.
Obviously not all GPs accept private diagnosis. And I had messages from GPs as well saying, it’s not us, it’s like the system doesn’t allow us to accept it. It’s not us just being like, we won’t accept it. And so that means that if you do go down the medication route, you can end up spending quite a lot of money because you have to have a consultation and then pay for the medication, which can be like 300, 400 quid a month.
Sam (41:33.652)
So for me, it was less about medication and more about I just wanted to know if I have it and then and that I’m not self diagnosing wrongly from the internet. And then if I have it, then I can look at strategies to deal with it. And so I did get I went with ADHD certified. They’re called they did give.
full disclosure, they did gift me the assessment and in return I did social media content about around it and how it works. But I thought it was great. And then they told me that I do have ADHD and it’s combined type ADHD. And it’s just made me realise so much about myself because I would have said, so combined is half of that is the kind of attention.
kind of deficit and what we might imagine from people with ADHD or children that we see is that they sort of get up all the time and can’t sit still. And I would have always said to you that I’m really good at sitting still. But since I’ve learned that that is a massive masking technique, so I might keep my bottom on a chair, but that doesn’t mean I’m sitting still.
You know, I do things like I skin pick, I chew the skin around my nails. I fiddle with things that I’m wearing. I shift my position in the chair. I jig my knee. I move my like I rotate my ankles. And so, you know, going from no, no, no, I’m actually really good at staying physically still to
MrsMummy Penny (42:59.296)
Yeah, I do that pretty badly.
Sam (43:21.199)
then realising that I have ADHD and noticing all of my masking tricks. And even things like, because my job, for my job I interview people a lot. And so I think I’m good at listening. And I am good at listening, but I’m masking a lot of the time because the listening face is that you’re still and you’re looking at the person and nodding, right?
So I can listen, but because of my ADHD, I can also think about something completely different, think about the questions that might be coming up, think about questions that I want to ask, think about what I’m doing after the interview is over. But I’m good at masking all that, so I do my listening face. So, you know, it’s just been such a big realization of all these things that I do.
and also being more open about it with other people, you know, in a work environment. Because I can also be, I talk a lot, the shock, as you may have noticed, which is a symptom of ADHD is talking a lot and also talking about yourself. So if someone shares a story and they say, I went on holiday to Greece and blah, blah, blah, blah, neurotypical people will then ask questions about their story.
Whereas an ADHD person might share a story back about also going to Greece, because we see that as a way of relating. So we’re saying, I hear your story and here’s a story of mine. And that’s how we’re connecting. But actually other people are like, why is she talking about herself all the time? Why is she not asking questions about me? And so noticing that and also telling people I have ADHD so I might
MrsMummy Penny (44:52.039)
Yeah, that’s
MrsMummy Penny (44:58.63)
Mmm.
MrsMummy Penny (45:04.252)
Yeah.
Sam (45:12.046)
I a lot, I might interrupt them, but it doesn’t mean that I’m not listening or that I’m being rude. It’s just the way my brain works has been really useful.
MrsMummy Penny (45:22.055)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do think it’s very powerful in the way that you got your fingers in a lot of pies and that almost, because I do this as well, so it’s almost like it’s a super powerful, like self -employed people that…
are very well diversified because you, I have tried literally everything you could possibly imagine with like 12 years of Mrs. Mummy Penny and then you actually work out like you said the things that you’re really good at totally along the way you’re gonna.
mess up some things big time and make some really big mistakes. But then that’s part of the sort of risk taking sort of part of your mind as well, isn’t it? Which I don’t think is a bad thing because if you don’t try all these different things, you won’t know what you excel at. So yeah, I can I can definitely see it’s a superpower as well as as well as can be a hindrance where it’s where I’m finding it really tough is in an education
traditional setting because traditional schooling is just not.
set up for somebody that struggles with a classroom environment and you know struggles when they don’t understand what’s going on around them or when there’s lots of loud noises around them so yeah it’s my heart goes out to anybody watching listening that has a child with same needs because it’s a constant battle to get schools to deal with it
Sam (47:01.502)
also with deaf children as well, know, in deaf environments, for example, you know, I know a deaf mum who has a deaf child and in the home environment, it’s okay, you know, it’s accepted and in a deaf environment, it’s accepted for you to physically touch someone to get their attention because obviously you can’t shout from far away. And then obviously in a school environment,
MrsMummy Penny (47:24.957)
Yeah.
Sam (47:28.904)
a teacher might be like, what are you doing? You know, don’t grab me to get my attention, just say my name. And there’s lots of misconceptions. And I think there isn’t that in a lot of places, there isn’t that open dialogue. And I actually heard a lovely story recently of like a great example of an education environment being accessible, which was that, you know, one of the children.
MrsMummy Penny (47:33.426)
you
Sam (47:52.415)
was finding the classroom environment overwhelming and it was a lovely day outside and they kept going over to the window and looking outside. And then the teacher decided to take the whole class and do the lesson out in the field. And like what a lovely and easy and accessible way of, you know, just changing the environment for everyone in the class to make it so that everyone can enjoy the class. And I bet the children who
aren’t neurodiverse or weren’t having difficulty in a classroom environment, enjoyed that too. It’s something different.
MrsMummy Penny (48:30.055)
Yeah, Yeah, I always used to love outdoor classrooms when I was at school for definite. Right, I’m just keeping an eye on time because we’ve been talking for quite a long time. And we were gonna talk about divorce, but maybe what I’ll say on divorce is I’m gonna do your podcast in a couple of weeks. So.
I will, of course, that will be shared with everybody that listens to this. So then we’ll have a very in -depth conversation about the positives of divorce, because there are a lot of positives, but there’s also some shitty parts.
Sam (49:08.947)
Yeah.
Sam (49:13.052)
Yeah, it’s a whirlwind isn’t it, divorce? But yeah, my podcast is called The Divorce Social, so we can delve into full divorce stuff.
MrsMummy Penny (49:20.561)
we will delve into all of them. Yeah, brilliant. Okay, thank you. So Sam, how do people find you on the internet?
Sam (49:29.834)
So I have a website which is samanthabaines .com and it’s B -A -I -N -E -S. And then I’m on all of the social medias, Instagram, X, TikTok, even LinkedIn, at Samantha Baines. So find me on all of those.
MrsMummy Penny (49:47.707)
Yeah, your Instagram’s really good. the thing that I love the most about your Instagram is when you do your charity shop hauls. I absolutely love it because you’re so good at finding designer stuff. And I’m like, I’m so jealous.
Sam (49:59.112)
Well I go to good places as well and I love the rummage. Also I think the ADHD thing it’s like the thrill of the find. That’s what I’m chasing.
MrsMummy Penny (50:09.553)
I’m like, my God, I’ve just found a Gucci skirt.
Sam (50:13.328)
Yeah, and then I’m like, so excited with myself, even if I don’t buy it, I like share it with everyone.
MrsMummy Penny (50:22.291)
Or when it’s like, what did I find the other day? One of my friends has got a pre -loved shop and there were some trousers that were, I think they were Prada trousers, like Prada is the brand that I’m absolutely obsessed with, but they were like size eight or something and I was like, this isn’t fair. And even though they were pre -loved, they were still like a hundred quid or something, but obviously a hundred quid for a pair of Prada trousers is a bargain.
Sam (50:38.343)
Yeah.
Sam (50:49.692)
is quite good. Yeah. I wish I had like, sometimes when I’m like going to charity shops, I wish I had like a WhatsApp group of women of all different sizes so that I could be like, Sharon, I found you size eight Prada trousers, and then they could do the same for me. Wouldn’t that be amazing?
MrsMummy Penny (50:58.675)
Yeah!
MrsMummy Penny (51:11.527)
like set it up. There’s another creative random idea. brilliant. Thank you ever so much for talking to me. I really appreciate your time and your expertise and your knowledge about a subject that affects impacts so many people and just think about the friends that surround you. One in three of those friends have got some kind of hearing issue. So yeah, let’s start talking about it.
Sam (51:14.216)
Great.
Sam (51:39.354)
and maybe you, so go for a hearing test.
MrsMummy Penny (51:42.993)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But let’s stop the recording.
