Summary
In this conversation, Lynn Beattie and Marie Smale discuss the topic of perimenopause and menopause. They share their personal experiences and highlight the importance of education and support during this stage of life. They cover symptoms such as insomnia, anxiety, brain fog, and dryness, and emphasize the need for open conversations and coping strategies. They also mention the role of hormones, including oestrogen, progesterone, and testosterone, and the potential benefits of hormone replacement therapy (HRT). The conversation provides valuable insights and resources for women going through perimenopause and menopause. In this conversation, Marie and Lynn discuss various coping mechanisms and strategies for managing menopause symptoms. They talk about the importance of finding a supportive tribe, taking hormone replacement therapy, and exploring alternative remedies such as magnesium and mushroom supplements. They also emphasize the significance of self-care, including activities like cold water swimming, yoga, journaling, and walking. The conversation highlights the need for balance, education, and surrounding oneself with positive influences.
Keywords
perimenopause, menopause, symptoms, education, support, hormones, oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone, hormone replacement therapy, coping strategies, menopause, coping mechanisms, hormone replacement therapy, alternative remedies, self-care, support network, magnesium, mushroom supplements, cold water swimming, yoga, journaling, walking, balance, education, positive influences
Takeaways
- Perimenopause can start 10 years before menopause and is characterized by various symptoms.
- Symptoms of perimenopause and menopause can include insomnia, anxiety, brain fog, and dryness.
- Education and support are crucial during this stage of life.
- Hormones such as estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone play a significant role in perimenopause and menopause.
- Hormone replacement therapy (HRT) may be a helpful option for managing symptoms.
- Open conversations and finding a supportive community can make a difference in navigating perimenopause and menopause. Finding a supportive tribe of women going through menopause can provide valuable advice, wisdom, and emotional support.
- Hormone replacement therapy, such as estrogen, can be effective in managing menopause symptoms, but it may not be suitable for everyone.
- Exploring alternative remedies like magnesium and mushroom supplements can help alleviate symptoms and improve sleep quality.
- Engaging in self-care activities such as cold water swimming, yoga, journaling, and walking can have a positive impact on mental and physical well-being.
- Maintaining a balanced lifestyle, educating oneself about menopause, and surrounding oneself with positive influences are essential for navigating this life stage.
Titles
- Exploring the Benefits of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT)
- Understanding Hormones: Estrogen, Progesterone, and Testosterone Building a Supportive Tribe for Menopause
- Finding Balance and Education in Menopause
Sound Bites
- “Educate yourself, definitely.”
- “Find out and don’t accept it.”
- “Getting that testing is quite hard as well. You need to push for that.”
- “Itchy skin, I forgot about itchy skin. Yeah, itchy skin. I’ve got such itchy skin.”
- “You’re gonna have to take estrogen for the rest of your life. It doesn’t just stop when your periods stop, you carry on taking it.”
- “I just got some really solid, I also went to the glass house retreat on a press trip, which was very fortuitous that I got because I’ve been putting my story out on Instagram.”
Chapters
00:00Introduction and Background
03:01Understanding Perimenopause and Menopause
10:30Symptoms and the Importance of Education
18:15Hormones: Estrogen, Progesterone, and Testosterone
21:24Seeking Medical Help and Coping Strategies
25:05Testing and Treatment Options
26:36Personal Experiences and Coping with Symptoms
26:56Itchy Skin and Menopause Symptoms
27:44Hormone Replacement Therapy and Alternative Remedies
29:19Exploring Natural Health and Wellness
30:08The Power of Self-Care
32:11Supplements for Cognitive Function
34:24Cold Water Swimming and Other Coping Mechanisms
35:21Fitness and Strength for Mental Well-being
36:48Finding Balance and Topping Up Your Cup
37:56Building a Supportive Tribe
42:15Journaling and Positive Influences
45:36Embracing Spirituality and Playfulness
47:26Educating Yourself and Surrounding Yourself with Positivity
Lynn Beattie (00:02.834)
Welcome to Mrs. Mummy Penny Talks, The Big Questions. And I have another guest sat with me in her beautiful, beautiful, it looks like a yoga room, Marie Smale, who is one of my wonderful, wonderful friends of many, many years. And we are gonna be talking about The Big Question, which is something that’s so, we’re both so, so passionate about, which is how do I survive
and the metaphors? Which is a big question. Hi Marie, thanks for joining me.
Marie Smale (00:40.7)
No, morning Lynn and thanks for the lovely introduction. It’s good to see you this morning on this bright and sunny morning. So yeah, brilliant. Where do we start?
Lynn Beattie (00:49.33)
Yeah, yeah. Where do we start? So I’m gonna start by saying how we, talking about how we met, because I think that’s quite interesting, because you’re not, a lot of the people I interview on my podcast have got like social media followings and stuff, and you’re not that type of person. You are my actual genuine friend, which all the people I interview are my friends, but some of them have 100 ,000 followers on Instagram.
Marie Smale (01:04.832)
day following.
Marie Smale (01:08.608)
genuine.
Marie Smale (01:14.413)
Yeah, no, I’ve got about 50.
Lynn Beattie (01:17.106)
Yeah, 50. So we met, I’m gonna say like 10 years ago on a yoga retreat in Cornwall where we were matched by the yoga retreat woman, Helena, our mutual friend. She thought we would get on really well so put us as roomies.
Marie Smale (01:34.56)
She thought we’d get on really well because we both liked bright lipstick.
Lynn Beattie (01:38.11)
because we both liked bright lipstick, yes.
Marie Smale (01:39.766)
That’s what she said to me. You both wear bright lipstick. I thought you’d get on. I thought that’s good enough for me.
Lynn Beattie (01:45.7)
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So, and yeah, the rest is history. I we bonded over. I was married at the time, but in a really dark, dark place. And I remember us.
Marie Smale (01:54.229)
Gosh, yes.
Lynn Beattie (02:00.678)
as we were sort going to sleep, having a chat about our respective relationships and maybe that’s where the seed was planted, I don’t know, but because I didn’t end up divorcing him until five years later.
So yeah, so you’ve you’ve and also so we do a lot of like walks together normally around graph of water, normally water involved and there’s always water. Yeah, we go to Paus Spa in Cambridge here loads which I don’t want to give away the secret of that place because it
Marie Smale (02:16.769)
Yeah. So it’s water.
Always a little step.
Marie Smale (02:38.601)
Yeah, thanks, talk about it.
Lynn Beattie (02:40.466)
Yeah, we go to this wonderful spa in Cambridge here. And yeah, we talk about anything and everything. But the really important thing you did for me, well, I mean, you’re a guide. there’s 10 years between us. And we’re both in, you’re in the corporate world, all but later.
Marie Smale (03:01.802)
you
Lynn Beattie (03:02.13)
actually, no, let’s start by doing a little bit of your life story and just tell people, you know, what happened in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, because it’s a really interesting one.
Marie Smale (03:12.872)
So I am a corporate person. I’m a compliance officer in the city. I’ve done the corporate journey. When my kids were growing up, I kind of kept my career on the down low. And then I got to 50 and my kids had gone to university. They were doing their own thing. And I thought right now is my time. I work in insurance and the center of insurance in the world.
not just in this country, in the world is London. That’s where insurance started and that’s, I’ve been in it all my life since I left school when I was 18. so 50 was really when my career started to hit. And also that’s when I hit menopause. So I had this kind of corporate journey in the city and the city’s changed a lot, even in the, I would say in the last five years and definitely since COVID because
we’re becoming much more aware as a society of diversity and inclusion and having conversations that people used to shy away from before the old kind of white male domination is, you can really see it particularly where I live, that is diluted and filtered out now. But when I was coming through it, it was very much a white environment and
very difficult to have certain conversations and certain words like menopause. I mean, if you’d said that in a boardroom situation or any kind of formal meeting room, my God. But now I actually, I dropped that word into as many corporate conversations as I can because I think this is a normal part of life and we should be having those conversations, definitely.
So yeah, that’s where I am. And so I was going, as I hit my career and started kind of really concentrating on what I wanted, because I brought my kids up and they were strong independent women and just getting stronger and stronger and more more independent. I had the space to concentrate on what I wanted, but at that time I was hitting perimenopause. And so there was this, there was interesting times.
Lynn Beattie (05:30.066)
So you, let’s do some lines in the sand. So you started perimenopause when you were 50.
Marie Smale (05:37.542)
I started, I actually started, Lynne. I was thinking about it this morning ahead of our chat today, but I started, I guess it was around 45. And there was something very wrong. So I’m going back, I’m going back probably 15 years, bit less, but there’s something very wrong. I was just felt.
Lynn Beattie (05:48.208)
Right,
Marie Smale (06:02.111)
not myself. So I went to the GP and I think we’ve probably all, anyone that’s had these conversations about perimenopause, he just said, yeah, you’re depressed. And he put me on antidepressants, which I didn’t want to go on. But I didn’t, wasn’t given any opportunity to have a conversation. I didn’t know what I didn’t know, because that’s the old adage is that you don’t know what you don’t know. So I did what I was told by my GP who I trusted and I took them.
Lynn Beattie (06:12.433)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (06:33.327)
But looking back, that wasn’t the right thing for me. I was going through, I was entering into perimenopause and yeah, there was nothing. Sorry, that’s my ulterior. Yeah, there was nothing. And so I was clueless. then I thought in my, because I hadn’t done any research, my mother’s generation never talked about it. We, I think, are the first generation who are saying,
Lynn Beattie (06:47.014)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (07:01.316)
this is happening to us and we need to be able to deal with this and educate ourselves as to what’s happening to our bodies. You we’re half of the population and we’re not talking about it and the support wasn’t there. So I naively thought, well, when my periods stopped, that’s it, it’s all over. And my periods did stop when I was 50 and I thought, excellent, piece of cake. And I remember saying to a girl at work, this is a piece of cake, I’m done. And I’m done.
Lynn Beattie (07:09.702)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (07:29.254)
What?
Marie Smale (07:32.035)
I’m good. I’m good to rock and roll now. We’re all good. And then I thought I was, I literally thought I was going mad and I started my sleep deteriorated and that’s due to, I’m not medically trained, but that’s due to the drop in progesterone. So that I was getting night sweats and I’m, I’m, don’t forget, I’m getting up at half past four to get the six oh three into the center of London. This is 2017 around
Lynn Beattie (08:02.533)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (08:02.543)
and anxiety, the confidence that I’d always had as a professional woman in a field that I was confident in, suddenly I’m questioning my decisions, I’m questioning my judgment, I’m questioning every decision I made. There are women around me who were going through it, but I also noticed that those women tended to fade away. And the reason for that, and we know that now, is because
It just is too hard. And so these women that are reaching the top of their career, that are absolutely in their height, and they have so much experience and so much life knowledge and so much more to give, it’s too hard. And because they’re not hungry for money, because they’re more comfortable in that stage of their life, it’s just too hard you
Lynn Beattie (08:38.886)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (08:57.289)
And I nearly did that. I actually thought, I can’t do this anymore. And I spoke to a friend of mine. said, I’m going to give my notes in. I just can’t do it. And I still hadn’t recognized that this was because of menopause. I just thought, I just can’t do this. This is too hard. And she worked in a different part of the, I worked for a very large group and she worked for a different part of the group. And she said, come on, work for me. And so she gave me that lifeline. And I’ll always be grateful to her for that because the environment I was in was
extremely male and difficult to have conversation about menopause and I still hadn’t really recognised that that’s what it was to be honest with you. And I also, so when I started looking into it, wow. Wow.
Lynn Beattie (09:36.546)
Mmm. That’s… gosh.
Lynn Beattie (09:49.364)
So, I think we just need to give a little bit of sort of stats and stuff for people that are listening and watching. And I’ll also share my story because you pre -warned me about perimenopause. So I was ready when it happened because of what you told me. However, I wasn’t ready at all. So…
Marie Smale (09:54.292)
Mmm!
Lynn Beattie (10:12.656)
So yeah, I think I’ll start with some sort of facts, because this is stuff I’ve researched recently, because I write a lot about perimenopause because of what I’m going through, you know, for newspapers and all kinds of stuff. But so.
all women with a womb and ovaries will go through the menopause. the menopause is one day. It is officially one year after your last period. so before, and obviously I’m not telling this to you, I’m saying it to the listeners and watchers. But perimenopause can start 10 years before that. So the sort of average age, it’s some point in
Marie Smale (10:49.245)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lynn Beattie (10:58.628)
40s when you’re gonna start perimenopause and the really interesting thing is so 20 % of women aren’t affected at all they sort of breeze through it without any symptoms however they don’t know what’s going on inside of them is what I will say then 60 % of women have some symptoms and a sort of okay but then you’ve got 20 % of women who go through absolute hell and that was
and that was me. I’m honest, I think it’s probably more than 20 % because if you’ve got raging insomnia and you’ve got… and the things that result from insomnia are anxiety, depression, paranoia, emotional, know, isolation. Because we can’t survive without sleep. It’s an actual torture technique.
Marie Smale (11:34.856)
I do too.
Marie Smale (11:43.854)
Isolation, isolation as well is huge.
Lynn Beattie (11:54.999)
And I know so many women who aren’t sleeping properly in their 40s. yeah, it’s a massive, massive issue. And I think you quoted some stats to me when we last met about how many women actually do drop out of the work environment. What percentage is it?
Marie Smale (12:09.361)
Yeah, yeah. I can’t remember the percentage, but I think the big thing, the big, I’ve scone for my head because I’ve also got brain fog. It was a lot.
Lynn Beattie (12:17.298)
It was like, was like, it was like brain fog. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was all, it was around, it was around 25%. I think you said it’s huge.
Marie Smale (12:25.061)
Yeah, and that’s a massive cost to industry, right? Because then you’ve got to re -recruit this and you’re losing experience. So these businesses, and that’s one of the reasons that I do a lot of work within my work, kind of on the side of my desk really with Women’s Health, I co -chair a Women’s Health group and we’re really getting this conversation going about menopause. And the reason I’m doing it is because there’s a whole generation of women in their 40s who are powerful women in the workplace coming up through C -suite positions.
Lynn Beattie (12:54.32)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (12:55.408)
and they’re not prepared for what, you know, I don’t want to have this, I don’t really like the word legacy because it sounds to me a little bit pompous, but I just want to have tools for people, tools for women, tools for my, I’ve got two daughters, I don’t want them to go through what I went through, there needs to be information because if you have that isolation. The other thing is, and we can, we maybe won’t have time to talk about it now, but there’s a whole load of women who have medically induced,
menopause who have hysterectomies. And I worked very closely with the other co -chair of the Women’s Health Group had a medically induced menopause and nobody warned her. She had a hysterectomy, nobody told her, none of her doctors told her. And then she had this crashing menopause. It’s just, and it’s horrendous. you know, it’s important to recognise that there are different journeys through this and no
Lynn Beattie (13:28.206)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (13:36.059)
Night.
Lynn Beattie (13:54.438)
Yeah. No, no, actually.
Marie Smale (13:54.597)
Two journeys are the same, but we all need to be having these conversations so that women have the tools. It’s just about having tools and coping strategies, right? It’s just, because there’s stuff you can do and there’s help you can get and there’s conversations you can have and…
Lynn Beattie (14:05.05)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (14:10.864)
Yeah, absolutely. It’s really like, I like to sort of link it back to like when we started our periods. and like, because our entire lives as women are, well, men as well, we are driven by hormones, right?
Marie Smale (14:12.11)
you
Marie Smale (14:22.254)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (14:35.879)
It seems to impact on women a lot more because we start our periods and yeah, we go through pretty hormonal. I went through awful times when I was a teenager because I’ve got a blood disorder, which means that I’ve got low platelets, which means that I bleed heavily. So my periods when I was a teenager were
Marie Smale (14:44.131)
Terrible.
Lynn Beattie (14:53.714)
like a murder scene. You’ve never seen so much blood in your life and nobody helped me. I remember going to the doctors all the time and their solution was to go on the pill. So I went on the pill when I was like 14.
Marie Smale (14:59.875)
No.
Marie Smale (15:04.621)
Go on, Yeah, same. Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (15:10.114)
And then over the years, the only time I got to actually stabilizing my periods was after my third child was born and I went on the merena coil. That’s the only thing that’s been able to stop me bleeding. And bleeding is a really big issue for many, many women. know, periods and…
Marie Smale (15:21.144)
Yeah. Yeah.
Marie Smale (15:28.087)
Yeah, yeah. And we’re told as women, yeah, no, sorry, we’re going off topic, I know, but I, that’s another thing that we’ve looked at the women’s health group is we thought it was just a period. It’s not just a period if it’s affecting your life disproportionately, it’s not just a period you need help. to your point, we just didn’t talk about
Lynn Beattie (15:42.086)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (15:55.042)
because it was embarrassing it was shameful to talk about periods so like I thought I thought sure I’ve told you this traumatic story about my mum but I was too embarrassed to tell my mum I started my period now I went for six months bleeding everywhere and on the bedding and on my clothing and stuff and and she never said anything to me which was a little bit weird never get that but
Marie Smale (16:06.413)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (16:21.394)
maybe it was a mutual embarrassment about periods because we’re talking like this was the, I started my period when I was 13, so 1990. There was so much shame about periods and sex and talking about anything like that. So yeah, you just sort of figure it out for yourself. But yeah, it’s just women going through a lot of stuff with periods then.
then having babies, and then we go through perimenopause. So I would want to hope that there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.
Marie Smale (16:57.61)
Yeah, there is.
There’s got to be, right? And I think that hope is the thing that you and I have been really good at doing and do as much as we can. And that’s around community and finding your tribe and connecting with people. I think that’s the most important thing you can do. And as women, we’re really good at that. That is one of our superpowers as women. We do do that and we’ve always done
Lynn Beattie (17:12.304)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (17:26.352)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, well, that’s a lot of personal experience we’ve just covered there, when it’s a lot of decent up periods. Great. so let’s talk about coping mechanisms.
Marie Smale (17:40.328)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (17:43.696)
because in fact, let’s first talk about symptoms. Let’s cover off symptoms because, and I want to drop in a really good resource, which is so Dr. Louise Newson, who is, she is incredible. So she’s the expert on this morning. And I sent her a DM the other day about how much of my platelets have dropped really, really low. And I’d sent her a DM saying, look, this is such a random question, but my platelets have dropped the lowest they’ve ever
Marie Smale (17:55.317)
Brilliant, brilliant woman.
Lynn Beattie (18:13.592)
in my life is this because of Perry Mennerboards and she’s like probably yes so she actually answered me back she’s amazing
Marie Smale (18:18.046)
Wow, she actually messaged you, yeah. She’s amazing, she’s absolutely amazing.
Lynn Beattie (18:24.996)
Yeah, so she’s got a book.
I would highly recommend which is called preparing for the perimenopause and menopause. I will put it in the show notes. She’s also got a really good app which is free where you can log your symptoms of which there’s ****** 30 or 40 of them. There’s so many and then you can log the ones that are affecting you moderately or extremely and then you can print out a report that you can or email to your doctor. So then you can literally rock up at your GP and say these are all
Marie Smale (18:40.66)
This loads, this loads,
Marie Smale (18:53.331)
to your GP.
Lynn Beattie (18:57.218)
symptoms. I am in perimenopause. Give me HRT as long as it’s appropriate because HRT is appropriate for most people, not everyone.
Marie Smale (19:02.387)
And that’s it. Yeah.
Not everyone, but that’s exactly what I did. And I got to the stage where I tried to do it naturally. I tried to go through this journey naturally because I am inclined to do that. And I gave up in 2021 because I was just a shell of a woman, literally. it was during COVID and you couldn’t get a face -to -face appointment with your GP. I managed to get, I had to wait six weeks for an online, like
like a telephone call with my GP and I had that list. been, you know, I contacted Louise Newsome. Her waiting list was huge. I was going to go private with her. She’s expensive, but when you’re desperate, I managed to get, and I was actually, my phone was on that setting where it doesn’t accept numbers it doesn’t know. So the call came through from my GP and my phone didn’t ring.
And I realised I’d missed it. I’d waited six weeks for this. I was a shell of a person and the phone didn’t ring because I had the wrong setting on my phone. And I phoned the surgery and I said, I’ve missed it. And he said, you’ll have to make another. The receptionist said, you’ll have to make another appointment. And I just fell apart. I literally fell apart on the phone to this poor receptionist. And they said, I’ll get him to call. And he phoned. The GP was amazing. He phoned. I’ll never forget. And I said to him,
Lynn Beattie (20:18.827)
god.
Marie Smale (20:33.359)
I’ve got this, I’ve got this, I’ve got this, I’ve got this. I need HRT, want patches or gel. And he was like, and like, because I’d educated myself and I would say that anyone listening to this who’s going through this journey and struggling, educate yourself. That’s the best thing you can do is educate yourself. And he just said to me, what brand do you want? He said, he was just like, what do you want? Tell me what you want.
Lynn Beattie (20:59.342)
Amazing.
Marie Smale (21:02.448)
And so I said, I didn’t know. he said he obviously wasn’t a menopause expert, but he listened to me and he could tell that I wasn’t just, you know, I knew I’d done enough to know that I needed help. And he was amazing. And at the end of the phone call, he said, I wish you well. No GP has ever said that to me before. But yeah, I know he said, I wish you well. It was December 2021. So I would say educate yourself, definitely.
Lynn Beattie (21:22.223)
my gosh!
Lynn Beattie (21:28.06)
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marie Smale (21:33.469)
No, I was just going to say my big things were sleep, anxiety and the confidence thing and the brain fog. Because you do think, what’s wrong with me?
Lynn Beattie (21:42.728)
Yeah, brain fog is a really big issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marie Smale (21:46.648)
It’s huge. And we also need to talk about dry vagina as well because I thought I was dying.
Lynn Beattie (21:52.518)
Yeah, I remember you telling me about this and you put the fear of God into me.
Marie Smale (21:55.745)
Honestly, I was terrified. had, I’m probably oversharing, but I don’t think I am because I feel like nobody told me this. Nobody told me this. So my vagina was so dry that actually it created friction sores. I could hardly walk. I couldn’t sit down. I was in so much pain and I thought there was something really seriously wrong with me.
Lynn Beattie (22:11.845)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (22:21.603)
And this is pre -COVID and I went to the GP and I saw the most fabulous nurse and she just looked at it and she went, my dear girl.
Marie Smale (22:33.409)
I know, I was in such a state.
Lynn Beattie (22:37.5)
you even ****** walk? Jesus Christ.
Marie Smale (22:39.584)
couldn’t it was so and she and so she gave me esteril you can buy esteril cream over the counter now you couldn’t then but you can buy them over the counter now and that changed my life because suddenly I could yeah so again it comes back to find out find out and don’t don’t accept it don’t accept
Lynn Beattie (22:57.67)
Yeah, so right.
Lynn Beattie (23:01.946)
Yeah, so some basic facts, okay. So there’s three hormones that affect women and that reduce or change at this stage of life. So the first one you’ve got is estrogen. I’ve got a little box of my…
estrogen gels, which I put one on every morning, which I’ve forgotten to do. So it’s here, ready to do, and I put it on the thinnest part of skin on my body. So I put it either here or I put it on my inner thigh.
And then you’ve got, so what, estrogen as a hormone, my God, it’s so important. It regulates everything. It regulates your sleep. Like it regulates my blood. So my platelets have dropped because my, estrogen is low. My cholesterol is high because my estrogen is too low. It does so, so much. But then you’ve got progesterone, which is another hormone, which that’s the sleepy worm.
Marie Smale (23:58.086)
That’s the sleepy one. That’s the one if you haven’t got enough of that you’ll sleep. Yeah. I think.
Lynn Beattie (24:02.98)
Yeah, and I get my progesterone from the merena coil, which also helps with the bleeding. So that’s a wonderful double winning thing. And there’s a lot of people that don’t like putting artificial things like that in your body. But when I was bleeding so much that I was going through a tampon every half hour, I do not give a ****. Like, I put a merena coil in and that lasts for like five years. So and it stops me getting pregnant because I could still
Marie Smale (24:11.169)
That’s good.
Lynn Beattie (24:32.984)
pregnant because my periods haven’t stopped. But then you’ve also got testosterone which is the other hormone that again there’s quite a lot of shame and people don’t like talking about it and also men testosterone levels changing is a really big issue for men as well. yeah testosterone is your sort of sex drive and what else is it about your sort of your muscular strength because that’s the other thing that happens in perimenopause is your muscle
Marie Smale (24:48.743)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (24:59.277)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (25:03.816)
goes. We’ll come on to fitness in a bit but yeah those are the three things that you need to get checked and when I got checked when I was 44 that’s when I started my estrogen was too low and my progesterone was fine because I’ve got the coil and my testosterone is fine I have no problems with my sex drive let’s just say
Marie Smale (25:26.452)
Good to know.
Yeah, you’re right. But getting that testing is quite hard as well. You need to push for that. I had to go private for that because they don’t give you that where I live. I’ve got a butterfly in my room. That’s nice. Yeah, it’s important to know where you are with your body, definitely.
Lynn Beattie (25:29.318)
Let’s just overshare everything.
Lynn Beattie (25:44.848)
Yeah, yeah. And so you go armed with that information to your GP and you just say to them, I want oestrogen gel because I’ve seen Mrs Mummy Penny talking about it. And I’ve got this information from this app from Dr Louise Newston, who is a qualified.
the biggest menopause expert in the country. So yeah, so those that some of some more of the biological facts, but yeah, coping mechanisms. Okay, so I will start so I my levels have gone up and down over the years. So I’m 47 now. So I thought that I’d cured myself when I was 45. So I was like, Oh, I don’t need to take estrogen because I’m fixed like I’m sleeping again. So I stopped taking estrogen for about
months and then I got myself into a right mess in April, May of this year and we met up on the 1st of June as I was sort of, was in the journey, I was still in a bit of a bad place then as was probably quite obvious but insomnia, absolutely raging, itchy ankles, my god it’s like
Marie Smale (26:40.477)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (26:56.271)
Itchy skin, I forgot about itchy skin. Yeah, itchy skin. I’ve got such itchy skin.
Lynn Beattie (27:01.99)
But it was just my ankles. And the thing is, I’ve got long nails, so I was scratching them in the night, and I’d wake up. that’s weird.
Marie Smale (27:03.273)
Yeah, yeah. Mine’s here. I’m like… Horrible.
Lynn Beattie (27:12.506)
Yeah, so, and then I’ve got all these other factors like my platelets dropping, my cholesterol going through the roof. So, and I did a health MOT actually with my income protection insurance, which was a free added benefit. And that’s what told me my cholesterol is too high. So went off to the doctors and I was telling her everything. And luckily the doctor I saw was a was a women’s health specialist. And she was like, okay, here’s estrogen, you have to start taking estrogen.
By the way, Lynn, you’re gonna have to take estrogen for the rest of your life. It doesn’t just stop when your periods stop, you carry on taking it. But I’ve not had any breast cancer or ovarian cancer in my family. So I’m, no, it isn’t for everybody. And you are gonna struggle to get it if you’ve got those kind of cancers in your.
Marie Smale (27:45.572)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (27:52.815)
No, it’s not for everyone.
Marie Smale (28:01.221)
That’s when it’s worth looking at the Louise Newsome site and stuff because she gives advice for women that have had cancers, hormone related cancers. Yeah, but yeah.
Lynn Beattie (28:10.66)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So,
So yeah, so when I saw the doctor in May, so, but I was like, why can’t I just take more estrogen to get more into my system? She was like, no, Lynn, it doesn’t work like that. You need to give it three months, 0 .5 milligrams a day, just to sort of bed in. And then we’ll recheck it in September or August for you. So I’m like, okay, but then I’m like, but I can’t sleep. And I’m literally losing the plot and the will to live. I have hit rock bottom. I’m crying 10 times a day.
she’s and the only solution they can give you is sleeping pills, which actually did more harm than good, because the sleeping pills gave me anxiety, which but the sleeping pill they gave me was amitriptyline, which is a mild dose antidepressant, which made me more anxious, and it fucked up my digestion as well. So I took it for a few weeks out of desperation. But then I started going on this like,
natural health journey throughout June where I saw you at the retreat. I went and did a yoga retreat. I met a lot of women who have been through what we are going through, what we have gone through. And I got some, I just got some really solid, I also went to the glass house retreat on a press trip, which was very fortuitous that I got because I’ve been putting my story out on Instagram. One of my friends who’s a journalist couldn’t do it. So she passed it to me instead.
Marie Smale (29:23.28)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (29:48.417)
And I just, as you say, I educated myself. I got some sleep coaching. I was doing loads of yoga and then I managed to get off the sleeping pills. And what I do now, I’m just gonna show you some products, is I take estrogen, absolutely, but I take this thing called nano magnesium.
Marie Smale (29:51.328)
edge caser. Yeah.
Marie Smale (30:08.663)
take my I was gonna say magnesium is I’ve only recently discovered magnesium it’s my I love it it makes sure I a good night’s sleep I didn’t know about magnesium but if you go into Holland and Barrett they they’re amazing actually because they’ve got trained herbalists and they’ll they’ll tell you because I was I found out accidentally because my husband takes magnesium and zinc I don’t know why I thought I’ll try that and
Lynn Beattie (30:15.515)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (30:34.659)
And I suddenly realised it was having a really good effect on my sleep. But I went into Holland and Barrett and said, I need my own supply of magnesium and zinc. And he was great. He went through everything with me. He said, you don’t need the zinc bit, you just need the magnesium bit. I mean, you can get advice. don’t, you know, if you want to go down that herbal route, go and speak to somebody who’s trained in it, because they are trained there and there are a lot of places you can get help.
Lynn Beattie (30:48.229)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (30:57.424)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this…
Marie Smale (31:01.259)
Magnesium’s amazing.
Lynn Beattie (31:03.076)
Magnesium is really, but there’s no medical testing that’s been done on it, so there’s no proof out there. So it’s just, but I know it’s working for me, so it’s my view and my view only. But this nanomagnesium’s really good, because you put it in your mouth an hour before you go to bed, and you swirl it around your mouth, and it soaks in, like your cheeks are really good receptors, aren’t they?
Marie Smale (31:10.857)
No, I know.
Marie Smale (31:23.042)
Yeah.
SORGED. Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (31:30.031)
And then the other things that I take is, so I take these mushroom supplements. So this one is reishi. How do you spell
Marie Smale (31:35.99)
Lynn Beattie (31:44.946)
R E I S H I and this is for sleep. when I just before I go to bed, I take one of these and I take my nano magnesium. These are about 20 quid for two months worth of supply. And then you’ve heard of lion’s mane.
Marie Smale (32:02.067)
yes, I have heard of lion’s mane. What’s that for? Is that for sleep? That’s for cognitive, is it not?
Lynn Beattie (32:06.352)
So lion’s mane.
No, Lion’s Mane is for the brain fog and for focus. So I take one in the morning and I swear to you, I am so ******* productive in the morning. get all of my work. I start work at six in the morning and like we’re recording this eight or nine. And so I’m pretty much done with my work day by lunchtime.
Marie Smale (32:12.959)
Yeah. Yeah.
Marie Smale (32:32.979)
Amazing. I’m going to get onto Lion’s I’ve been looking at Lion’s Mane. heard, I listened to another podcast and she’s just started taking Lion’s Mane for cognitive kind of joined upness. So I’ve kind of been thinking about that. So I’m going to get onto
Lynn Beattie (32:43.706)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (32:47.154)
Yes, and this company is called Grass and Co. They’ve got no affiliation. They do a really good like 25 % off offer when you first join up and get a bundle. So I got the Focus and I got the Dream and I think it cost me like 30 quid for both of them for two months supply.
I mean, that’s an introductory offer. yeah, but actually what I will say about Lion’s Mane is a guy recommended it to me, who has been sort of helping me with my holistic life. And he takes it
Marie Smale (33:16.574)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (33:26.322)
It’s just for focusing the mind. And it’s particularly helpful when, because I’ve got a little bit of an ADHD brain where I struggle to focus on things. And you know, I’m always thinking of the 20 things I’ve got to do that day. And it’s really helping me to not do that. So yeah, yeah.
Marie Smale (33:28.511)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (33:44.639)
I’m gonna get onto that, definitely.
Lynn Beattie (33:47.534)
Lion’s mane, it’s and it’s also a mushroom. yeah those are so so what other coping mechanisms have you got?
Marie Smale (33:56.03)
My go -to, and I’ve tried lots of different things and I would also say, try stuff, try stuff out, try stuff on and see if it fits and if it doesn’t find something else. So I’ve recently got into cold water swimming, which I absolutely love. And I’ve invested in a tub in my garden, a cold water tub in my garden. So I go and sit in that and I put on, I put a track on my phone and I just sit in there for 10 minutes.
And there’s something, there’s loads, I mean, there’s loads of information on social media about the benefits of cold water, but that is a reset for me and I love it. I do it as much as I can, but I’m quite fussy about where I swim. Cause I think there’s some nasty stuff in rivers. We all know that, we all know, we’re all aware of that. So I swim in places that I know are clear and clean or I sit in my tub
And the benefits of cold water are huge. I do yoga. I keep fit. I keep very fit. do. And to your point, I think you said earlier about your muscle mass, it declines in menopause. And so I do four boot camps a week for my strength, because if you’ve got a strong body, it helps you with your mind. That’s how
For me it does, if my body’s strong, my mind is strong. And I think that’s for me. So my body is cold water, keep it fit. My mind is my yoga. I meditate every day, twice a day, sometimes in the morning I meditate. And at night I do a meditation just to bring me down and reset before I go to bed. That’s just a personal thing. It just helps me sleep and my tribe. I mean, honestly, Lynn.
Lynn Beattie (35:45.681)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (35:48.25)
I think the older I’ve got, I’ve realised how important my tribe are and it’s a tribe of women and those are the people you go to for strength, for conversations, for honesty, the people that know you, that have no agenda with you. you know, they’re not there with an agenda, they’re there because we all recognise that it’s good to be, it’s good.
Lynn Beattie (36:07.825)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (36:17.916)
the company of women and the conversations, those conversations like when you and I go to pools, we just, we sit in a hot tub for three hours and we just talk and you come away feeling, do you remember the one we did earlier this year? We watched, was like January and it was getting dark at four and we watched the sun go down over the hill and I can’t tell you, that just tops your cup up and I think that’s the, finding something to top your cup up so that when you are empty, when you’re spent,
Lynn Beattie (36:31.743)
Lynn Beattie (36:46.655)
Mm. Mm, mm.
Marie Smale (36:48.193)
Even if it’s just a five minute meditation, if it’s a cup of hot chocolate, if it’s a herbal tea and a chapter of a book with a candle, whatever it is, it doesn’t need to be expensive. It doesn’t need to cost anything. It can be, you know, a herbal tea bag in a hot pot of tea, know, hot pot of water, but…
Lynn Beattie (36:58.17)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (37:06.502)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Marie Smale (37:09.412)
Just find those little moments in your day that will top your cup up because we can’t walk around empty and trying to cope with everything and take on everything. That would be one of my big go -tos, I think. I’ve fanned that out for myself the hard way. I need to top my cup up.
Lynn Beattie (37:27.206)
Yeah. I, I, um, when, so the yoga retreat, I went on the weekend after I saw you in June. Um, Oh my God, it was like magic. Like I met, I always get emotional thinking about it because I met these 15 women and, um, most of them were your sort of age. There’s a lot of wisdom going on there. And, um, I was just so.
Marie Smale (37:50.906)
So much wisdom.
Lynn Beattie (37:54.876)
I was like a child because I had all these women like looking after me and giving me advice and passing, but also I was able to pass wisdom back to them because I, I acknowledge that I have.
Marie Smale (38:00.664)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (38:07.234)
You do though, you do, when we were at Paus you did didn’t you? We were in the hot tub with these two amazing women and we were all sharing the wisdom and it was just such an open space, was incredible! It’s really, really… It was!
Lynn Beattie (38:19.502)
It was, it was amazing. We need to, we need to, we need to message that woman and do the art thing. We do need to do that. So yeah, we met an artist. They were, they were a bit older, weren’t they? They were sort of late sixties.
Marie Smale (38:25.088)
Yeah, yeah we do, we do.
Marie Smale (38:33.431)
They’re about, I guess they’re about 10, 15 years older than me. So they were in the next kind of part of their journey. But the wisdom, oh my God. The freedom, yeah.
Lynn Beattie (38:42.616)
Yeah. and the freedom, the freedom they’ve got. my God. So like, I do think that decades get easier once you sort of get past, maybe once you get past your forties and your children grow up a bit. I think maybe when you get into your fifties and sixties, I just recorded a… Yeah. I did…
Marie Smale (39:02.007)
You give less than a **** what people think. It’s really that. And you…
You just do. This
Lynn Beattie (39:11.526)
The, I recorded another podcast yesterday, which will be out by the time this comes out. So yours is coming out in mid August. So I interviewed Pete Matthew for sort of early August. the big question we talked about was, does life get easier as you age?
And he’s a dad of girls and I’m a mum of boys. So it was a really fascinating discussion. And he’s very open and honest and talks about absolutely everything like you and I do. Quite rare for a man. But I love him so much. And he’s from Penzance as well. He lives
Marie Smale (39:53.899)
connections.
Lynn Beattie (39:55.186)
my home yeah yeah but he’s he’s this like uber like financial um guru that’s got like 120 000 followers on um youtube
this podcast that gets downloaded 100 ,000 times a week. It’s crazy. Anyway, so yeah, we were talking about the same sort of thing. But the thing I was going to go back to, yeah, so I met this wonderful group of women. And one of them, they all they’re all local to me as well. More local than you, because you’re like an hour away. But one of them, Claire, is going to take me while swimming, because she knows all the secret places around like, Wellin and Hitchin and Knebworth and Hertfordshire. So that’s very good. I’m going to do
Marie Smale (40:05.944)
out.
Lynn Beattie (40:35.732)
because obviously I’m a water baby. No, no, I’ll only ever go with Claire. Yeah, yeah. But the, I was gonna say the other coping mechanism I want to add in is walking. I am a massive walker, so I do 15 ,000 steps a day and…
Marie Smale (40:36.127)
It’s free, but I would say don’t ever go on your own. That’s the only thing. It’s not safe. There’s a lot
Lynn Beattie (40:58.766)
It is a little bit of a healthy obsession. I force myself to do it every day. And sometimes you do have to force yourself, but my God, it makes you feel better. It really does. It’s the nature, it’s the smells, the birds, the sounds, the flowers. And you walk past loads of people walking their dogs and it’s just a little hello. It’s lovely.
Marie Smale (41:10.579)
Yeah, just being in nature.
Marie Smale (41:23.432)
Yeah, but that makes you feel connected, doesn’t it? We need people, we are pack animals. The other thing I would say, which is great, I don’t know if you ever do this, but take your shoes off and feel the earth, because that grounds you. It’s just the most extraordinary thing.
Lynn Beattie (41:34.65)
Yeah, ground yourself.
Lynn Beattie (41:39.824)
Yeah, yeah. And we are both really into yoga. Well, I mean, you can tell. I’m just about to go to hot yoga when we finish. And we’ve both got all the yoga tattoos, which Marie’s husband, Matt, has done all of my tattoos, and all of yours.
Marie Smale (41:55.835)
Yeah, got my yoga on.
Marie Smale (42:05.191)
and all of my, yeah.
Lynn Beattie (42:08.836)
Yeah, so the other thing I was going to say about coping mechanisms is journaling. And I mentioned this a lot. I love and you just sit with a book and you just write whatever crap comes into your head.
Marie Smale (42:15.655)
Journaling’s good, yeah.
Lynn Beattie (42:23.786)
And sometimes I have a prompt, like I follow some really incredible people on Instagram. My Instagram feed is really curated and it’s only positive people. And there’s a woman I follow called, yeah, there’s a woman I follow called Kirsty Gallagher, who is, because she sends like a little message every day. It’s the Cosmic Community. You’ll love it.
Marie Smale (42:35.001)
I think that’s really important because I think… Go on. Yeah.
Marie Smale (42:51.901)
Yeah, I’ll get on to
Lynn Beattie (42:53.452)
And so today’s message, today’s message was use the energies of this week to think about where you look to the outside world for answers or for approval or for validation. It’s time to take back your power and shine your light from within. It’s just beautiful.
Marie Smale (43:09.231)
Yeah, that’s cool. That’s very cool. I think it’s important to be careful what you let in here to what you listen to and what you watch and what you allow into your feeds because that can have such an effect on your mental state. we’re taking in the right stuff, we’re listening to the right stuff, we’re seeing the right stuff, it’s going to have that positive effect on us. I think it’s really important. I don’t think people think about that enough.
about what they allow into their ears because it affects your mental state.
Lynn Beattie (43:45.734)
Yeah, and surround yourself with the right people. is a really difficult thing, but it does come with age, and it does come with not giving a ****. But if you’ve got toxic people in your life, get rid of them. And I know it’s harsh, but sometimes you need to split up with friends.
Marie Smale (43:48.463)
Yeah, definitely. You’re tried.
Marie Smale (43:58.575)
It does.
Marie Smale (44:02.873)
Yeah, it’s true. Yeah, it’s true.
Marie Smale (44:09.413)
I’ve had to do that. I’ve had to do that. Yeah. It’s hard.
Lynn Beattie (44:13.008)
Yeah. And it’s, it’s, it’s almost harder than a relationship.
Marie Smale (44:18.041)
Yeah, because you can’t, it seems, but you’ve got to just allow the right energies into your life. I sound like such an old hippie and I probably am, but yeah.
Lynn Beattie (44:30.994)
I’m like, so what? Like, I fully embraced the whole sort of spiritual side of me, probably since that yoga retreat 10 years ago. I think that’s where it, no, was meeting Helena when I was pregnant, actually. So Jack’s, it was 12 years ago when I first started doing yoga. It really helped my last pregnancy because I had massive pelvis issues.
heads up, Marie’s recording has stopped due to an incoming call.
Marie Smale (45:06.31)
That’s me. My daughter phoned me. just, I’ll phone her back. Can you hear me?
Lynn Beattie (45:10.682)
Alright fine fine. Yeah yeah yeah it’s all working I just got a little message. Let’s get rid of that. Yeah it’s still recording. So what was I saying? Total memory block now. yeah, Haleida. Yeah discovering, discovering yoga. Yeah but
Marie Smale (45:26.014)
Helena.
Lynn Beattie (45:34.14)
But with the fitness stuff, it’s really important to mix it up. Like it is really important to do weight training. But I see, I…
Marie Smale (45:40.265)
Weight bearing is really important.
Lynn Beattie (45:43.278)
I do weight bearing and then I do yoga for my head. I do a lot of yin yoga, which is very difficult for me because I’m a very yang person. So yin and yang is sort of light and dark, summer and winter, male and female. And I’m a very out there extrovert person. So I need to come into myself and do introverted type yin practices. And then if I want to go out for a run, like I do
for a run but I do it for fun although I always time myself and I’m very competitive with myself but it’s not a strict part of my fitness structure because at my stage of life I just need to work on muscle strength and I’ve dropped a load of weight like I’m not fat
Marie Smale (46:32.488)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (46:38.438)
Because being overweight is also a thing that’s gonna do a lot of harm.
Marie Smale (46:42.811)
It’s another struggle for your body, isn’t it? Yeah, it’s another struggle for your body. Yeah. No, I think it’s interesting, isn’t it? Because it’s a bit of a juxtaposition because we’re both very corporate people, but we also have this kind of yoga spiritual thing going on as well. It’s all about balance. And I think as you get older and going back to menopause and perimenopause, it’s dealing with that balance and finding that balance. And so that you can just function.
Lynn Beattie (46:58.074)
Yeah.
Marie Smale (47:11.836)
properly and effectively and efficiently and have joy and playfulness in your life without being bogged down by life. Because life is short and we should play more. Definitely.
Lynn Beattie (47:11.984)
Yeah, I agree.
Lynn Beattie (47:24.506)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (47:30.226)
Yeah, I love it. love it. I’m going to end it there because I think that’s a good place to end it. And we’ve been talking for 47 minutes. I always try to limit my podcast to 40 minutes. I know it goes so quickly, but then we can we can sit in a hot tub for three hours and.
Marie Smale (47:35.612)
Alright, darling.
Marie Smale (47:42.29)
That went so quick. Yeah.
Marie Smale (47:49.175)
we can talk, it’s true.
Lynn Beattie (47:49.234)
still have only covered 5 % of our lives. Yeah, so thank you ever so much for joining me. We covered so much stuff in that conversation. will any resources we’ve mentioned, I’ll link them, like the supplements and the apps and Dr. Louise’s book and all that kind of stuff. So
Marie Smale (47:57.34)
pleasure. Yeah.
Marie Smale (48:11.759)
Yeah. And Davina should mention big up to Davina because she’s got the conversation out there. There’s so many now. My social media, I was talking about feed, mine is full of women and menopause matters. there is a lot of help. There’s a lot of resource. Find the person that kind of speaks to you and educate yourself.
Lynn Beattie (48:16.454)
Yeah.
Lynn Beattie (48:31.526)
Yeah. And as you said, find your tribe. Like if you need to be surrounded with, you know, older, wiser women than you, because that’s what I need at the moment, then do it.
Marie Smale (48:35.683)
Why don’t you try
Marie Smale (48:44.868)
Yeah, find it,
Lynn Beattie (48:48.859)
and put yourself into situations where you’re gonna be with those people. So go to yoga retreats. Like I go to yoga retreats by myself. I do not give a **** because you always, it’s people on your wavelength.
Marie Smale (48:59.886)
You always come away meeting friends for life. Having made friends for life, yeah.
Lynn Beattie (49:04.08)
Yeah, well, yeah, let’s look at us. So yeah, thank you ever so much. Normally I end by saying, how can people find you on the internet, like, you’re not that type of person, you can’t. Marie’s secret, she’s just my friend.
Marie Smale (49:10.202)
Bit of pleasure.
They can’t.
Marie Smale (49:18.672)
Everything’s private. I just love talking to you and thank you for inviting me and to me that to this and to listening to me is lovely. And I think it’s just such an important thing. We’ve to be having these conversations. So thanks, Lynn.
