keywords
motivation, sports psychology, fitness goals, triathlon training, mental resilience, personal development, overcoming setbacks, psychological flexibility, health awareness, goal setting
summary
In this engaging conversation, Mrs. Penny and sports psychologist Louise Jones explore the intricacies of setting and achieving audacious goals, particularly in the realm of fitness and personal development. They discuss the motivations behind setting big goals, the importance of understanding one’s ‘why’, and the psychological strategies that can help individuals overcome setbacks and maintain motivation. Louise shares her insights on training for triathlons, the significance of psychological flexibility, and the role of thoughts in performance. The discussion emphasizes the need for a supportive network and coping mechanisms to navigate challenges along the journey to achieving personal goals.
takeaways
- Setting audacious goals can be a powerful motivator.
- Understanding your ‘why’ is crucial for long-term commitment.
- Psychological flexibility helps in adapting to challenges.
- Injuries and setbacks are part of the journey; how you respond matters.
- Having a support network can enhance motivation and resilience.
- Breaking down big goals into manageable steps is essential.
- Nutrition plays a key role in physical performance.
- Mental preparation is as important as physical training.
- It’s okay to feel overwhelmed; focus on what you can control.
- Celebrate small victories to maintain motivation.
titles
- Overcoming Setbacks in Training
- Psychological Strategies for Success
Sound Bites
- “How to motivate yourself to reach an audacious goal.”
- “I love getting psychologists on my podcast.”
- “What is my why?”
Chapters
00:00Introduction to Audacious Goals
03:03The Journey of a Sports Psychologist
05:54Setting Big Fitness Goals in Midlife
08:57Understanding the Motivation Behind Goals
12:00Training for a Triathlon: The Reality Check
14:55The Importance of Knowing Your ‘Why’
18:00Dealing with Setbacks and Injuries
21:01Psychological Flexibility in Training
24:04Coping Mechanisms for Stress and Setbacks
26:59Planning for the Unexpected
30:01The Role of Thoughts in Performance
33:07Breaking Through Mental Barriers
35:50Final Thoughts on Goal Setting and Support
MrsMummy Penny (00:01.422)
Hi everybody and welcome to Mrs. Penny Talks and we are back again with another guest and a subject that I’m really, really excited to talk about from a personal perspective and from a perspective that I know a lot of you will be really interested in. So the big question today is how to motivate yourself to reach an audacious, massive goal. And I’m joined by Louise Jones, who is a
perfect person to talk about this because she’s a sports and performance psychologist. Like I love getting psychologists on my podcast to talk about these massive subjects. So we met very recently and one of the most exciting things about Louise is that we have a lot of life stuff in common. we’ve bonded over family, private stuff. But we met at a networking event a few weeks ago and
Louise did the keynote at the beginning of this networking day and we were like, my gosh, this is like the first person to stand up and do this presentation. was brilliant, like really, really interesting and really set off the presentations really well. So, we had a chat and I like, you’ve got to come on my podcast and here you are. Thank you.
Louise Jones (01:17.603)
My pleasure, it was great and it was lovely to meet you on that day too.
MrsMummy Penny (01:21.014)
Yeah, no, was, was, was a good day, lots of women and it was a really good sort of motivational speech to start off the day. But yeah, so tell me about you and what you do and why you do it. What is your why?
Louise Jones (01:39.375)
What is my why? This is always the hardest part of any kind of introduction, isn’t it? What do I do when I end up talking to everyone else about their lives and what they do? So in terms of what I do as a sports psychologist, I’ve been doing this for the last 20, 25 years. And what I do is support athletes, coaches, performance directors, sports systems to enable athletes to thrive.
MrsMummy Penny (01:48.609)
Okay.
Louise Jones (02:05.703)
in not just the training environment but the competition environment so they have a greater opportunity to be able to achieve what they want to when it matters on competition day. I guess the key competitions that I’ve been working a lot with have been Commonwealth Games, Olympic Games, Paralympic Games. I’ve also done a women’s ashes tour, a women’s rugby world cup, etc etc. So I’ve done a lot of various different sports competitions.
over the last 20, 25 years and just I love it. I do it because I remember way back, I used to be an athlete myself, not particularly good, but national level athletics. And I just, remember way back and at school actually it was, I was doing athletics at the time and one of my friends at school
MrsMummy Penny (02:50.252)
Just national level, not that big.
Louise Jones (03:03.149)
went over the high jump and broke her arm, unfortunately for her. And I remember when she was recovered and she went back to doing the high jump, I remember her just finding that really difficult and there was no physical reason. I knew it was all psychological. I thought that’s really fascinating. I’m really interested in how she can actually overcome that and get back to competition. And I think that just interested me. And I think between the combination of the fact that I love people.
I really am curious about what makes them tick, what gets them going, how they can achieve what they want to, what are the barriers that get in the way. So I love people and I love the brain and how it works and how weird and wonderful and interesting it is. And there’s so much to learn about that and how we then interact with the environment. And then when at uni, I was either going to do sport or I was going to go into forensic psychology. actually I thought I liked sports psychology because it’s a really proactive space to be in.
MrsMummy Penny (03:44.024)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (03:59.183)
It’s not about really, I mean, it’s about overcoming problems, but it’s actually how can I be better? And that’s what I love about. Fritz Perls once said, you don’t have to be ill to be better. And I loved that phrase to me. It’s about, not always going, I’ve got an issue with this. I’ve got a problem with that. It’s actually, hang on, this is where I’m at. This is where I want to go. How do I get there? And that, and I like that environment to be in. kind of those two combined.
MrsMummy Penny (04:22.701)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (04:27.287)
And I was lucky to know early on that was what I was interested in. So I just followed what I was passionate about and have so far had just an amazing journey of sports psychology and in the last kind of five, six years worked more in the corporate worlds in performance psychology. So taking all my learnings from high level sport into the corporate business world, doing some business coaching and some team development work and thoroughly enjoying that as well.
MrsMummy Penny (04:53.708)
Yeah, yeah, that’s amazing. That’s really cool that you knew what you wanted to do from a young age and it’s just been the journey throughout your career and you’re still enjoying it.
Louise Jones (05:08.675)
I think I was very grateful because you look at your family life and where fit in and I’m one of three and I’ve got an older sister and a twin brother and my older sister kind of was the first and did all the first and your parents go through the first right and my brother was the kind of golden child followed in dad’s footsteps so I was kind of left to my own devices which was great and could then just follow what I wanted to follow so I was very grateful for being kind of second daughter middle child
MrsMummy Penny (05:27.256)
You
Louise Jones (05:37.769)
and was and so I was allowed to kind of follow my passions which was and that’s where I’ve got to work so I still love and absolutely every day love what I do it’s so varied you never know what’s happen one day to the next and what you’re gonna have to deal with and manage and yeah I love that.
MrsMummy Penny (05:51.222)
Yeah.
They’re like the best jobs in the world, aren’t they? Where like things, I love the unpredictability of my job where I just don’t know what I’m, I do know what I’m going to be doing each day, but it’s different stuff each day. Like to be like talking to you today is totally different to yesterday where I’m like recording some content.
promoting hair shampoo. And it’s just, I love the randomness and like requests come in and it’s for like something completely different that I’ve never done before. And I’m like, okay, can I do this? And quite often I think if I can’t do it, that almost pushes me more towards it because then it’s like, right, just push yourself out of your comfort zones and do something that’s quite scary that you’ve not done before, which gets me onto sports goals.
Louise Jones (06:18.758)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (06:45.15)
I have noticed with a lot of men and women as they get older into their 40s, we, because I’m one of these people, we set these like massive like fitness goals of something like quite impressive, quite crazy to aim towards. like so many people I know do triathlons or decide they want to be an Ironman or decide they want to
cycle from John O’Groats to Lance N, you know, these really crazy girls and my big crazy goal that I’m going to do next year is I’m going to do a triathlon, an Olympic length triathlon. I’m not doing a sprint one. I’m doing a proper one. A sprint one’s fine. But I wanted to set myself a really, really big goal. And I’m sort of in the beginning sort of training throws of it. And all these questions just keep coming to me of, so I suppose number one,
Louise Jones (07:26.961)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (07:44.662)
Why do we set these really big goals, particularly when we get into our sort of middle, I said middle age, isn’t it? It’s like, do we feel like youth is running away from us and we want to set something special?
Louise Jones (08:01.315)
there’s going to be, I mean you could say easily it’s a midlife crisis hits us, what do we do? I think, you know, I think there’s, I mean there’ll be individual motivations for each person’s reason for making those choices I think. And, but yeah, I think there’s maybe a gap at this age in terms of, and I guess there’s there’s probably a middle classness about it as well, because triathlons and Ironman’s
MrsMummy Penny (08:06.094)
Yes.
Louise Jones (08:31.279)
are not cheap, just so things go and I learn a good couple of hundred quid. Then you’ve got to get a bike, you’ve got to get a wetsuit, you’ve got to do all the training, so there’s a lot about that. So think there’s something about the kids growing up at a certain age, there’s something around having a bit of money, there’s something around, okay, where am I in my career if I’m not quite happy with my career and need something else to…
MrsMummy Penny (08:32.994)
Yeah, that’s totally right. I’m working that one out,
Louise Jones (08:57.177)
to show me that I’ve still got stuff about me that’s important. I don’t want to be losing all the fitness. We generally, from the age of 30, lose our natural fitness. So we’ve got to keep our aerobic and our weight, you know, going to the gym and our strength up. And how do we keep that? How do we keep staying fit? Well, actually having a goal helps us give purpose to staying fit and healthy. And then you might start on a sprint distance triathlon or Olympic, but then you’ll end up doing a half.
70.3, then you’re going to an Ironman because you’ve done what you you’ve hit, you’ve ticked those off. So what’s the next one? There’s an enjoyment around it in terms of the social side. There’s a challenge that you get a positive, that intrinsic motivation that you feel when you do a training session, you complete it, you feel good anyway, because you’ve got your happy hormones from doing the exercise, but then you’re like, yeah, I can do that. Brilliant. So you feel good about yourself as well. So there’s a psychological reinforcement.
So you want to keep doing it. It’s quite exciting to say to your mates, hey, I’m going to do this. And it feels good. And they’re like, yeah. And they get really behind you. You can do it with sponsorship. I’ve got a friend who started to learn karate with her kids and was like, OK, by the age of 40, I want to be a black belt. Amazing. And she is brilliant. And I think that’s it. I know. I know.
MrsMummy Penny (10:18.52)
Wow. That takes years.
Louise Jones (10:23.459)
I’m just, know, and these things inspire me. I do, have often, every so often I have an email or a message saying, you don’t know me, but I’ve got your contact or somebody and I’ve decided to do an Ironman. I’m really scared, but apparently you’re someone I should speak to about it. I was like, okay, let’s have a chat. So, know, it’s learning about yourself in that comfort zone, right? You stretch and you’re like, you learn a bit more about who am I, where are my limits, what do I want? And it’s also,
takes you away and gives you perspective about the rest of your life, which is really helpful because maybe sometimes you’re so engrossed in your work or so engrossed in family life, having something else that actually is for you because you can feel you’re doing everything for everybody else. Where do I stay? What am I doing for me, which is really important, that self-care. So yeah, so there’s lots of different reasons. And I think for me personally, it’s really important when someone does set a big audacious goal.
MrsMummy Penny (11:07.821)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (11:15.071)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (11:22.073)
that you know the reasons why you’re doing it because actually along the way and through the challenges that’s going to keep you grounded because you might lose that along the way.
MrsMummy Penny (11:31.854)
Yeah, I was gonna say to you, so I officially started my training the beginning of September. So that’s I was so excited when I met you two or three weeks ago. I was like, this is perfect timing. I have to talk to Louise about my triathlon. So I’ve engaged, I’ve found some triathlete and Ironman type people on the internet who have been very helpful. I’ve got some friends who I’m gonna be doing it with in May.
Louise Jones (11:39.105)
Yeah!
MrsMummy Penny (12:00.334)
anyway, but they don’t live anywhere near. So I need to, join a local triathlete group. have figured that one out, but so I’ve got this training plan that’s been given to me by the manager at my gym and it’s quite intense. It’s like a lot of training and, like the first week I went for it and I did the two long cycles. did the two long runs. did like a swim. think I exercised like six days out of seven.
And I was like, I can’t maintain this. So it was, was quite interesting to start with such enthusiasm and like telling everybody I was going to do it. And then actually realizing that that’s too much and I maybe just need to build it up. And also, I always thought I’d be fine. I always thought that the cycle bit would be really easy. So let’s break it down. So an Olympics Olympic distance triathlon.
Louise Jones (12:31.151)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (12:58.056)
on is 1.5 kilometer swim followed by a 40 kilometer bike followed by a 10 kilometer run. So I’m all right at swimming. I know I need to have some lessons to improve my efficiency and stuff. And I thought that the cycle would be fine. So I went out and did a road cycle and it took me like
Louise Jones (13:04.655)
gonna take you on.
MrsMummy Penny (13:21.292)
maybe an hour and a half to do 27 kilometres. And I was like, my, cause I was on a mountain bike for a start. So I know that I had the wrong equipment, but it really just filled me with the fear of, of, of not being able to do it because it took me so long just to do the cycle. So I’m now at the point of, have I set myself too big a goal? Cause that’s one of the things I wanted to cover with you. It’s like, how do you choose an appropriate size goal? Like have I
I’m just fitting off something too big here and now I’ve told everybody I’m doing it, so I’ve got to do it.
Louise Jones (13:54.159)
So I mean, one of the reasons why you tell people to do it is so that it helps you stick to it, right? So there’s a bit of motivation around that. And it’s its May, so you’ve got a long length of time to get there, right? You just at the start, you’ve got plenty of time for an Olympic distance triathlon. And I guess rooting to what I came back to last time was what’s your why? Like why did you choose? What were the reasons you decided to sign up to this Olympic triathlon?
MrsMummy Penny (13:58.593)
Yeah
MrsMummy Penny (14:21.87)
So, we’re gonna get quite deep now. So my mum died when she was 58 and since turning, know I’m 47. So it feels, this is getting very deep, but it feels like I’ve got a bit of a like ticking time bomb in me in some respects that as I get older,
Louise Jones (14:25.519)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (14:51.104)
it’s really, really important that I stay super healthy and that I keep my weight under control and my cholesterol is fine and my hormones are at the right level and I protect my heart health and my visceral fat is all good. So I’m a little bit paranoid about all of these health things because I absolutely do not want to die when I’m 58. And to add to that complication,
Louise Jones (14:55.534)
Thank you.
MrsMummy Penny (15:19.266)
So my mum had a heart attack, my dad had a heart attack. They both died at similar ages. My brother and my sister have both had heart attacks as well, but they survived. But there’s just this impending sort of health fear of, can’t let previous sort of, not looking after myself properly, I just can’t let that happen anymore because I’m now at the age where I just have to sort it out. So I was like, right.
get something really big in place. And I’ve been thinking about a triathlon for a few years, because I really enjoy the sport, like watching it. And I’m really inspired by the people that do it, the Brownie brothers and all those wonderful stories. And England are generally very good at triathlons as well. So I just sort of put two and two together in this year. was like, right, just going to do it. Because I know that I can also raise a shedload of money.
for grief encounter, of my favourite charities. I can sort of tie it into my business as well, because I can write about it and how to motivate myself. So there’s quite a lot of reasons, but mostly it’s because I don’t want to die.
Louise Jones (16:36.993)
Just on the note, there’s loads of good English triathletes. Yes, there’s lots of good home countries. the Welsh, Scottish and our triathletes are really good too. Just putting it out there. Living in Wales, we don’t have this case. So, I mean, that really interesting. Firstly, thanks for your vulnerability and openness talking about the why, because, this is like the stuff I deal with, right? So, and this is really important to understand that when you set
MrsMummy Penny (16:45.787)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.
Bye bye.
Louise Jones (17:06.863)
these goals of what your aims are to really fully understand that. And that’s your why. I would also hold these are big goals. I’d hold that big goal lightly. Is it that big? It’s a goal. It’s something you want to achieve. You don’t need to attach the word big to it because it doesn’t sound like it’s helpful at the moment. So I would go, you’ve got a goal. And the main reason you’re doing it is to allow you to be healthy, right? Healthy and happy.
MrsMummy Penny (17:22.701)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (17:30.158)
I
Louise Jones (17:32.367)
You’re gonna have this fear based on the situation that’s going on and that’s totally understandable. That’s okay. They can also be motivating in a positive way, right? Just shouldn’t be the only motivator. It can be a motivator, but not the only one because then it doesn’t eventually it doesn’t So but it’s about remaining healthy So that’s really important for you to know and come back to the purpose of what you’re doing Why don’t because then you can go? Okay, I’ve started off way too quick. I’m doing six sessions a week
you know, one a day, I’ve got one rest day, wow, like, I want to be healthy, but this is too much. also, within it, it’s not going to be healthy if you’re sticking to that whilst overworking, sorting out all the family stuff, and then you’re really stressed, that’s not healthy, right? You’re going to be burnt out within a month, right? And then you’re not, not, you know, helpful for anybody or anything.
MrsMummy Penny (18:17.742)
Hmm.
MrsMummy Penny (18:22.54)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Louise Jones (18:27.471)
So let’s have to think about what healthy means. You decided to go for an Olympic rather than a sprint, but not a 70.3 or an Ironman, because you realise that maybe an Ironman as your first triathlon would be a big goal, That’s all slightly ridiculous, but some people do do it, and I know some people who have done that as their first triathlon. So I think about, what is it that I need to do? look at, you’ve got till May as well.
So I would look like May and work. That’s what I want to achieve in May. want to, maybe my goal is just to finish the triathlon. I don’t even have to do a time. I’ll just be happy finishing and feeling comfortable in lycra. Cause generally that’s what happens when you move in triathlon. You’ve got to wear another lycra. And you know, you’ve got to work out is the swim going to be a wet, I don’t know, is is it a pool swim or is it a lake swim or a swim? So it’ll probably be, yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (19:11.246)
you
MrsMummy Penny (19:18.85)
It’s a false word actually, it’s still palace, triathlon.
Louise Jones (19:23.737)
So because with the triathlons, you’ve also got the transitions, which they call the force, right, your T1 and T2. So you’ve got to manage that. So there’s a lot within the triathlon itself, okay. But it’s super cool and super fun. But, and the main aim is to remain healthy. So for you, it’s the training really. It’s the training, getting into consistency and good habits and healthy habits, right? So it’s focusing that on that and going, and that’s
MrsMummy Penny (19:28.284)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (19:41.804)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (19:49.955)
Goal in May is going to help me achieve that. So it’s got to be realistic. You come back to how we set goals, right? It’s got to be realistic and achievable. it’s way out of your comfort zone, it’s going to be, you’re not going to do it. If it’s too boring, it’s an easy, you’re not going to do it. It’s got to be kind of in between. It’s got to fit your life as well. So I think it’s worth going back to your programme with whoever setting it and going, right, I can actually probably only do this amount of swims, bikes and runs through the week.
MrsMummy Penny (19:56.119)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (20:20.377)
Can we start slowly, achievably? And then once you’re achieving, that’s going to positively reinforce you so that intrinsic motivation is going to get I’ve done all the sessions this week, yay, what’s happening next week? All right, cool. With a bit of flexibility because life throws stuff at you, We both know. So life throws, so you’ve got to be realistic. so I would break it down a little bit further.
MrsMummy Penny (20:33.344)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (20:38.72)
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
MrsMummy Penny (20:47.478)
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
Louise Jones (20:50.391)
aligning it all with your purpose of staying and remaining healthy.
MrsMummy Penny (20:54.614)
Yeah, yeah, I think I can manage six sessions of training a week, maybe in like April or May, not quite in September.
Louise Jones (21:01.465)
There you go. Yeah. Yeah. And look, and it’s getting darker, right? So.
MrsMummy Penny (21:08.14)
Yeah, and you can’t really soon you won’t be able to go out like road cycling
Louise Jones (21:12.811)
Yeah, and you’ll have to be a turbo trainer and all of that stuff for gym, you know, so it’s just working all of those out, but knowing actually the aim is the focus is remaining healthy. So how can I do that in a way that’s gonna work?
MrsMummy Penny (21:29.26)
Yeah. So what happens like, and like with the people that you coach and stuff, what happens when sort of events come along? I’m thinking like injury or big life events that stop you from training. How do you deal with those kinds of obstacles when you’ve got this, whether it be, I’m going to compete in the Olympic games or whether it be, I’m going to do a triathlon next year. So it’s almost the same.
Louise Jones (21:57.487)
Yeah, yeah, I’m dealing with the step backs. think it’s, I mean, the bane of every athlete’s life and coach’s life is injury, right? Because a lot of those are uncontrollables. I mean, one of the cyclists going towards the Olympics fell down some steps, didn’t they? And then they were injured, so they couldn’t actually go to the Olympics. it’s all of those things.
MrsMummy Penny (21:57.804)
goal and concept, isn’t it?
MrsMummy Penny (22:02.562)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (22:09.037)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (22:14.542)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (22:24.995)
They’re in the uncontrollables. it, which will be the same. It’s the same. And we go back to your example of the triathlon. There’s loads of uncontrollables in the triathlon race. So for example, on your bike, you get a puncture. Right. So you can do all this training and then on the day, and you see it in the Ironman sometimes that people just, they’ve had like three or four punctures and I don’t have any more inner tubes. done. And it’s not their fault. They’ve done all the training, but they’ve just had loads of punches on the bike. So it’s, it’s a real challenge.
MrsMummy Penny (22:38.724)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (22:51.822)
Yeah.
I won’t make us give up.
Louise Jones (22:55.887)
Yeah, they want to ride around with no wheels. So it’s really hard. There’s so many skills. Stick on your mountain bike with like really massive tires and a closed road. There’s easier triathlons to do, right? So it’s working out what course you want to do and stuff. That’s another.
MrsMummy Penny (23:00.076)
Yeah. I’ve not even thought about punctures. my god.
Louise Jones (23:21.391)
So but it’s dealing with the under control injuries are horrendous, right? And then it depends on what kind of injury you’ve got and what severity because you’ve got you’ve got career ending injuries right so athletes who and I’ve dealt with that, know in rugby Where you know, they’ve just got onto the senior team. They’ve had one or two caps the senior team and all of a sudden There’s a bad tackle The leg broken
MrsMummy Penny (23:32.812)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (23:51.319)
in such a significant event that they can’t play again. So rugby career done and dusted. You’re dealing with that. That’s obviously a real challenge. There’s lots of transition around that. There’s a grief process that you go through with that. And you’re grieving a career, you’re grieving the leg, you’re grieving kind of what, and then there’s what next. And then you’ve got the whole spectrum of injuries. So the first thing is to find out what’s diagnosis of the injury. it’s how, there’s something that’s happened that’s uncontrollable.
MrsMummy Penny (24:04.746)
you
Louise Jones (24:20.589)
what can you do to manage the uncontrollable part, also then there’s got to be some controllables that you can then deal with as well. And then we would tend to focus on what can you do rather than what you can’t do. And also realising that you’re dealing with a human. So if you want to cry, cry. If you want to laugh, laugh. If you want to have some time off, have some time off. You know, be human. If you want to indulge in just feeling…
MrsMummy Penny (24:33.869)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (24:48.377)
Sorry for yourself, a good hour or two, go for it. Just limit your time on that, you know? And that’s really hard.
MrsMummy Penny (24:51.662)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I think that’s almost like that’s like life in general, isn’t it? It’s how to deal with setbacks because we have setbacks thrown at us on a multiple occasion on a daily basis. And I was thinking about this yesterday because I had yesterday was Thursday. Yeah. So I had a, had a tough meeting and my
Louise Jones (25:01.262)
Mm-hmm.
MrsMummy Penny (25:22.708)
immediate reaction, I was talking about this last night because I was out for a drink, my immediate reaction was to go and buy something sugary just to like give myself some comfort after like a stressful meeting. And it’s, it’s, it’s a bit of a, it’s a bit of a tactic, isn’t it, to get yourself out of those unhealthy coping mechanisms when these setbacks happen and switching yourself into more healthy coping mechanisms.
coping mechanism for I then did do I did eat something sugary. I have a sugar addiction and it’s a really difficult one to like get over. But I then went out and did a 10 kilometer walk. So I sort of balanced it out. But and then I’ve just been to the gym this morning and how I’m doing my cycling training is I’m doing loads of spinning classes. Which then getting used to the bike number one and getting used to locking my
Louise Jones (26:15.064)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (26:20.238)
trainers in, you know, the Clippy in trainer things. Sorry, that’s really technical words. Sports psychologist. But yeah, that’s how I’m building up my endurance at the moment is doing spinning rather than going out on roads too much and money saving tip. I’m buying a secondhand bike off one of my friends.
Louise Jones (26:24.611)
You know the clippy and things. I know what you mean, so it’s fine.
Louise Jones (26:41.871)
Yeah, because it came with a free turbo trainer as well, that’s what you need to access. then it’s hard like setbacks are always hard. mean, one of the main therapies that I use is acceptance and commitment therapy, which
MrsMummy Penny (26:45.998)
I mean it’s a really good bike but I’m not going to cycle it.
MrsMummy Penny (26:59.917)
Okay.
Louise Jones (27:00.399)
I really enjoy and one of the main things around that is about psychological flexibility. That’s what we work towards. So it’s not about kind of being, I have to do this and I have to do that. It’s about, okay, this is the scenario. These are my strengths. These are my values. This is me who I am. How can I really see this experience as an observer self, so from a bit further away? I always use my hands a lot. So I know you can see this, but people listening can’t see what I’m actually doing with my hands moving away.
and a real understanding of how it all plays out and how do I be flexible because life throws us stuff. What can I use within that? And it’s okay to feel how I’m feeling right now. How do I actually use my emotions, which are always, our emotions are always valid, right? They are completely valid. They tell us loads of cool things about ourselves. So how can I use that rather than fight against it? And how do I manage that? How do I not get too attached and drawn into certain…
MrsMummy Penny (27:35.884)
Mmm.
Louise Jones (27:57.863)
scenarios, certain beliefs that I might be, my brain might be giving me reasons for that aren’t helpful. How can I look at those in different ways? And so you can flex around all the different scenarios of what’s going on in your life around that to support you in being you authentically in this world, but also to manage what you want to achieve. I like that. I like the thought of psychological flexibility.
MrsMummy Penny (28:05.933)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (28:28.076)
Yeah, yeah. And giving yourself a break, but like **** happens and you can’t avoid it. Cause there’s, it goes back to sort of control, doesn’t it? Cause you were talking about uncontrollables and controllables. There’s, we can control so little in our lives. Like we don’t actually know what’s going to happen in the next 10 minutes in reality, do we? And we can, we can control.
Louise Jones (28:31.502)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (28:57.718)
what we put in our body, what we eat, what we drink. We can control making ourselves go to the gym, but you can’t really control your thoughts, can you? And it’s a tricky one.
Louise Jones (29:07.907)
You can work with your thoughts and you can understand them and then you can, I mean, you can train. So in terms of competition, can train us to have the thoughts you want, right? So, I mean, whatever we kind of marinate our brain in is what our brain is going to be like, right? So if we constantly are going through negative thought patterns and negative thinking, that is generally what’s going to come out. And the opposite is true.
MrsMummy Penny (29:36.557)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (29:38.139)
So we do have a level of management and understanding that we can use with that. And because sports psychology is proactive, we will warm up those things. So we will plan what the athletes will think while they race, compete. And then they will do that as you would physically, right? So running a racing…
MrsMummy Penny (29:58.519)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (30:01.397)
participating in a triathlon for you, you would break down the swim, the bike and the run. And whilst you’re swimming, I would put some thinking that you’ve practiced along the way. Otherwise your brain is doing nothing and more than likely because you’re a bit worried about how it’s going to go, you’re going to have a threat response. So your brain is going to go, ooh.
you shouldn’t be here, you need to get out of the water, this is awful, you’re get punched in the face in a minute, it’s horrible. So but instead of that you go right I want to go to the first buoy here, this is a two lap swim, I’m gonna sight and I’m gonna count to three and then I’m gonna breathe and we’re gonna one two three breathe one two three breathe and that keeps you in the moment, keep you in the present, you focus on that not focus on anything else because we can only ever have one thought at a time and thoughts work on
MrsMummy Penny (30:45.91)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (30:52.321)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (30:53.579)
addition not subtraction. So you can’t get rid of a thought by going I don’t want to think of that but what you can do is add in a thought and then you’re thinking about that thought not the other thought. Does that make sense?
MrsMummy Penny (31:08.184)
That’s good. Yeah, that’s so simple. Yeah, I love that.
Louise Jones (31:12.431)
Yeah, so really important to remember thoughts work in addition, not subtraction. So you add a thought in because you can only think of one thought at a you add, so you practice and you think about what thoughts do I want to have that’s going to give me the best opportunity to perform how I want to perform in that moment. And you work on that and you warm it up. You warm up your physical stuff. So let’s warm up your psychological stuff and practice it in training. Because when you race, you’re racing as a whole human being. So you need to
MrsMummy Penny (31:19.072)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (31:41.781)
as a whole human being and get out there and do that stuff. The same as you would in the corporate world. You warm up the psych stuff. You warm up. Yeah. I did a session the other day on listening and got people to warm up their listening before they go into a meeting. And they all looked at me as though I was like the weirdest person in the world. Which I probably am or one of them. you know, it’s like warm up our listening. I’ve never warmed up. But how important is listening in a meeting? And I was like really important.
MrsMummy Penny (32:00.174)
Ha
MrsMummy Penny (32:10.335)
my gosh.
Louise Jones (32:11.811)
But don’t warm it up? No. Don’t even know what to do with that. So we had a whole kind of session on that. Really interesting. Loved it. People were like, okay, let’s see how this goes. Yeah. So it’s warm. You’ve got to warm stuff up. Like before our hockey match, I play hockey with my daughter, which is brilliant. I get all the girls on the team to just shout loads of stuff out because I’m like, come on, we’ve got to be communicating on the pitch. Let’s warm up our vocal cords. Talk. Let’s go. Shout to each other.
And they’re all like, they hate doing it, but they realize it does help. They love me really.
MrsMummy Penny (32:46.902)
I love it. So what happens, you know, when you hear particularly in like marathon runners and stuff where they hit like a wall of can’t carry on like, well, people do carry on, but how do you get, don’t, I’ve never experienced hitting this wall because I’ve never done anything so sort of physically hard.
Louise Jones (33:07.831)
Yeah, so I would suggest when you hit a wall it’s normally to do with a physical nutritional thing. So a lot of it with the Iron Man and marathon is they haven’t got their nutrition right.
MrsMummy Penny (33:14.657)
you
MrsMummy Penny (33:18.432)
Yeah, because it’s normally like 20-ish miles, isn’t it?
Louise Jones (33:21.645)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would say start off with get sort out your nutrition, keep the energy levels up. The other one be from psychological point of view would be you break it down, right? So at that point, everything’s probably overwhelming you, right? And you’re having a freeze or flight response. So at that point, breathe. If you’re on the last leg of an Ironman or an Olympic distance, you know, you’re on your 10, you’re on your 10K, just walk and then just look at the, you know, is there another lamppost? Get to the next lamppost.
MrsMummy Penny (33:27.118)
yeah, I’ve not even thought about that.
Louise Jones (33:51.203)
get to the next feed station, the drink station, get to the next corner of the run and just break it down. Like how do you eat an elephant? One little bit at a time, right? I mean, wouldn’t eat an elephant, but you know the analogy. Just break it down, break it down, break it down. One step at a time. You’ll get overwhelmed if your future thinking. So do what needs to happen when you’re in that present moment. That’s what I want.
MrsMummy Penny (33:55.404)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (34:01.834)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (34:16.257)
Yeah, yeah, and yeah, because I suspect by the time I get to the run at the end, I’m going to be feeling quite stressed. And it’s, I think what will help me is because I’m used to just going out and running.
Louise Jones (34:31.917)
I wouldn’t actually be surprised. Lots of people get relieved when they’re on the run because they’re like, now it’s just me and I can run and it’s controllable. Yeah, the Alund controls was on swim and the bike said, it’s just a run. And like if all else fails, I can just walk it.
MrsMummy Penny (34:38.882)
L.A.
MrsMummy Penny (34:46.466)
That’s what I was gonna say, that yeah, worst case scenario, I’ll just walk.
Louise Jones (34:47.595)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And as say on the bike, if you come up with a number of punches, you can just walk with your bike around. I’ll do a wee depending on which punch has gone. you know, just round swim. You can just breaststroke it round. You know, there’s always a way, but it’s having those what if scenarios in your head and have planned those out, right? What people tend to do.
MrsMummy Penny (34:57.826)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (35:06.595)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (35:15.723)
is when they’re getting nearer to the race, go, god, what if this happens? What if that happens? And they stay in the what if, and then they start panicking. You go and work, okay, go and work on the what, okay, what if, you know, your wetsuit comes undone? Or what if your goggles come off when you’re swimming? What would you do? You get and have a plan and go through all of that. And I would do that two weeks before the race. Do all your what ifs weeks before the race. Because then after that, you then you’re thinking, you want to be thinking,
MrsMummy Penny (35:22.669)
Yeah
MrsMummy Penny (35:36.866)
that. Yeah.
Louise Jones (35:44.771)
what you want to happen, right? And that’s what you want in your head, right? Knowing that you’ve dealt with everything that could go wrong.
MrsMummy Penny (35:50.958)
Yeah. So, in an episode, so I think this is episode 14. In episode 12, I interviewed a psychotherapist and we were talking about, how to prepare for a really stressful meeting. And she said exactly the same thing that you’ve described. She’s literally like, think of all the worst things that could happen in that meeting and prepare yourself for each of them. And do you know what I’ve, I’ve always thought.
that you should go into scary situations almost like really optimistic and just preparing for the best that’s going to happen. But actually, like that’s two psychologists now who have both said like prepare yourself for actually the worst things to happen and then you’re literally ready for it aren’t you?
Louise Jones (36:40.591)
Well, normally the worst thing or the worst things that could go on are the uncontrollables, right? And in that moment when those things happen, it’s really hard because you’re panicking, you’re emotional, your irrational brain is focused, so you’re not gonna make good decisions. So if you know that, if you’ve planned it before, you’re gonna be using your plan from your rational brain when you’re feeling emotional. So you’re gonna make a better decision, which is what you want to happen, right?
MrsMummy Penny (36:45.859)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (37:04.227)
Yes.
Louise Jones (37:09.913)
So that’s, and also at the time when it’s happening, your brain goes, hang on, I’ve planned for this, what was the plan? Okay, let’s do that. Rather than having to go, what should I do, what should I do, what should I do? And your brain’s going, I don’t know what to do. And then you’re gonna go into your threat response, So it helps you regulate yourself going through those plans beforehand. Knowing that you can’t plan for everything, but most times, if you go through everything, there’s normally something that’s quite similar, or you go,
MrsMummy Penny (37:10.286)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (37:16.909)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (37:24.343)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (37:28.718)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (37:38.243)
what do I do if there’s something that’s completely unexpected? What do I do then? What do you breathe? You stop, you think about it. Or if you’re in a meeting and someone’s done something that you don’t like, know, breathe, ask a question. So you just got a bit more time, you know, so just have a plan to deal with it.
MrsMummy Penny (37:42.519)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (37:53.676)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. love that. Yeah, I’ve got my list of questions, which I think I’ve meandered off totally, it’s been like, I just think there’s so many people out there who I just think set these goals and don’t think about the physical side, but don’t necessarily think about the mental side. So I think you’ve covered so many useful bits of information for people.
Louise Jones (38:02.975)
Thank you.
Louise Jones (38:23.277)
The thing I would say about goals, just I know we feel like we’re finishing up, the thing about goals is they’re your goals, And they should, the goals are about helping you motivate yourself in a direction that’s helping you. So if you’re not going in the right direction, I would come back to the goal and go, hang on, what was it I wanted to achieve? Because it’s not the right direction, it’s not the right goal. It might be the right thing, like you doing a triathlon sounds like the right thing, but if you’re so focused on
MrsMummy Penny (38:23.874)
firmly.
MrsMummy Penny (38:31.384)
Yeah.
Louise Jones (38:52.729)
getting all this training in six times a week, that’s not helping, but that’s not actually the goal. It’s, you know, the right goal. All is about remaining healthy.
MrsMummy Penny (39:00.684)
Yeah, I think you really hammered it there. It’s not the thing in May at all. It’s the having a healthy heart. It’s making sure all those measurable health things are all within line. Yeah. Good at your job.
Louise Jones (39:22.927)
Thanks, like I know what doing.
MrsMummy Penny (39:29.494)
I know! It’s like you’ve trained Olympic athletes and got people doing amazingly well in the best competitions in the world. I’m so in awe of you. I’m so fascinated by the world of psychology and what psychologists do. I absolutely love it. I should have done it.
Louise Jones (39:30.863)
you
Louise Jones (39:39.321)
Thank
Louise Jones (39:48.719)
I have an easier job than the athletes are the ones that actually have to go out and do it. I’m an easy one in the background just kind of supporting. They’re the ones that put their amazing. I’m inspired by them.
MrsMummy Penny (39:59.566)
I think they would all say they can’t do what they do without their coaches and their psychologists and their nutritionists and their physios and because there’s a massive team that backs up every athlete.
Louise Jones (40:12.591)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, huge. it’s about, as we talked about in the nurture network, it’s about that, how getting the right team around you for sure. Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (40:26.03)
Yeah, yeah. And that flows in quite nicely to the setbacks as well. One of my wonderful healthy coping mechanisms is I have like a set of three girlfriends that I will leave voice notes for when I just need to empty like the stuff out of my head. And I’ll quite often say to them, I don’t need you to reply. I just need to like talk to you in this voice note and just get it out of my head. And that’s part of you.
Louise Jones (40:53.048)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (40:55.788)
Yeah, your circle, your village support network.
Louise Jones (40:57.027)
Yeah, right, yeah, love that. So good to do because it’s easier getting a circle, it’s only got to use your circle.
MrsMummy Penny (41:05.484)
Yeah. Yeah. that’s amazing. Right. Okay. We have overshot the time. I always do. It was so interesting to talk to you. Can people find you like online, like maybe on LinkedIn and stuff? They want to like…
Louise Jones (41:23.149)
Yeah, I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on Instagram. Yeah, they can find me. They can, there’s some random videos of me talking about sports psychology online somewhere. Google Louise Jones sports psychology. come up and talk about random things, but yeah, I am available. Yeah, LinkedIn is probably the best way for LinkedIn and Insta.
MrsMummy Penny (41:41.303)
Yeah.
MrsMummy Penny (41:46.894)
And what’s your next big competition coming up that you’re aiming for? It would be the Commonwealth Games, wouldn’t it? Yeah. Yeah.
Louise Jones (41:55.191)
Yeah, now we know they’re in Glasgow. Yeah, the Commonwealth Games and then you’re talking LA Olympics and Paralympics. Woohoo! Yeah, I mean, it’s great that the Commonwealth Games are on. I was a bit more excited when it was on in Australia, it’s gone to Glasgow, but it’s great they’re on. Glasgow hosted a fantastic one last time, so it’ll be good to get back. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, it’ll be good.
MrsMummy Penny (42:03.894)
God.
MrsMummy Penny (42:14.76)
I love Glasgow. It’s a wicked thing. Yeah. Cool. All right then. Well, thank you very much for your time. Lots and lots of invaluable tips there that I know people will really appreciate. of my, all of the people that listen to this that have set all these audacious goals and they’re thinking, I don’t know how I’m going to do it. Well, now you know. So yeah, thank you ever so much. And I will stop recording.
